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Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1993 09:35:05 -0500
Sender: New Ways of Thinking List <FNORD-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From: 00bcpalmer
Subject: Haircut 100
FNORDers and most honored guests, I post in fear that someone is going to tell me they luv me, therebymaking feel less credibly human. I am finishing the last of my free sample of"New Guinea" variety coffee from the SLO Brewing Company of Bay Osos CA.They send out free samples because they roast their coffee in cocaine and sugar and they just *know* the customers will come back. I prefer their Beachcomber's Blend. Gymnepodies #s 1 & 2 by Eric Satie are playing. Eric Satie spent thelast few years of his life in the Thirties or so in a chair and he pulledstrings attached to pulleys which opened doors, lit his pipe, answered thephone, etc. Much as I now live. Pardon the confessionalist tone, but I can't decide what to do withmy hair, or rather increasing lack of it. Don't get me wrong, my body hair isstill Grizzly Adamsish, but I'm going to be in a wedding in January and Ineed your advice. I would like to shock the Christians in the audience in someway without doing the punk rock thing. I was thinking of a red and blonde weave, but as I am nearly bald, it seems the facial hair will have to be my bonmot. whatever that means. So what about a goatee? maybe? Yet my cheeks are chubby.I used to be handsome. What happened? Anyway, I'll *have* to wear the tux,(black and white thank Foss!), but I would appreciate any advice as to howto weird my image in some other way(s). Perhaps tiny purple tinted glasses.I dunno. I'm just not a creative person. Help! Not too very fondly, yet still somehow semicaringly yours, Brent <Pollux> 00bcpalmer I was purged and all I brought back was this damned T-Shirt!
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Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1993 09:58:13 -0500
Sender: New Ways of Thinking List <FNORD-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From: 00bcpalmer
Subject: Re: well well well
Thank-you palipitating gabonzo bean pilaf, you foot shocking turd popper!
Those of us who are northbound chicken ticklers with the Banana flavoured
Tlony Orlando Jell-mO on these now unreliably thrilling brneast braces relyon
the edible wine pricks of voluble essay sadists like Spanish recession mints
to help keep the intermixing parachute flies of the Steel Uncertainty Goat
Unions online.
Keep the underwater guantlet removers and the Saint Andrew impressivegroundhog
bells. Have some superlative polar bear juice.
b<p>
p.s. Do you prefer salmon straps or improbable lingerie teapot grinders?
Anyone want to buy some stomach pajamas?
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1993 11:06:13 EDT
Sender: New Ways of Thinking List <FNORD-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From: Allison Freeman <AFREEMAN>
Subject: Re: Haircut 100
>I'm going to be in a wedding in January and I need your advice. I
would like to shock the Christians in the audience in some way
without doing the punk rock thing. I was thinking of a red and blonde weave,
but as I am nearly bald, it seems the facial hair will have to be my
Ellis always said that if he couldn't grow his hair right, he
wouldn't grow it at all. Take control of your own head and shave it
off. Do your eyebrows too while your at it.
Since no one responded to my message asking for ideas for my wedding,
I've had to plan the whole thing myself. I was going to punish you
all by not inviting you, but then I wouldn't have enough witnesses
(2). So, mark your calendars and come to Florida (pronounced "Flaw-i-
da) on January 8.
Bingo, will you be my maid (matron) of honor? We can get a long
dress if you're embarrassed by your legs and the wedding is in Lutz
so you won't be spitting alone. Please...
Allison Freeman
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Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1993 10:12:21 -0500
Sender: New Ways of Thinking List <FNORD-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From: 00bcpalmer
Subject: Re: REF to "Christians"
I have received some personal mail objecting, gently, to my use of the
word "Christians" in a recent post in which I said I wished to alter my
appearance to offend the Christians or some such thing.
I merely meant that, in my experience, those who call themselves"Christians"
and also FNORD-L listowners tend to judge things/other people byappearances.
I hope this qualifies.
b<p>
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Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1993 14:04:40 -0400
Sender: New Ways of Thinking List <FNORD-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From: Scott Lesser <LESSER>
Subject: dearest brent
>Seeing "dear" and "brent" together like that really makes me sick.Please
>schtop this. *UPDATE*: After discussing this issue with my wife, I have
>decided to go as the fellow who played Magnum, P.I.
will make a note of this: "do not express affection for brent publiclythrough
use of trite, formal expressions."
however, brent, you cannot escape from that special place, deep within my
heart, where you shall remain until i draw my last breath on this wonderful
planet and go away to spend eternity with my sweet, redeeming lord, jesus
christ! (or a reasonable facsimile thereof...)
kill a queer for christ? no, shoot a priest for the safety of the children!
hey, all you christians out there: jesus was an underachieving hippie just
like the rest of these bozos on fnord-l. where do you get a this hugemoney-
making industry out of it, anyway?
and i'm coming from an intense baptist background that had me hating maskedin
love until i was smart enough to figure it out...
now i hate real, unadulterated, pure HATE!
and love the most commercial, warm, fuzzy, industrial-strength love you canfit
into a package for $6.99 (on sale now)!
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1993 14:35:12 -0500
Sender: New Ways of Thinking List <FNORD-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From: moores7518
Subject: Brent
Brent: Fashion tips, without going to extremes? Take one large spoon, scoop
out all of your insides, replace insides with PENNZOIL! No one will knowthe
difference, but boy won't *you* feel hoopy!
Your pal,
Scotto
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Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1993 18:44:19 EDT
Sender: New Ways of Thinking List <FNORD-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From: EJ Fnord <EJFORD>
Subject: Re: Brent
This Scotto Fellow seems to be made of the sort of stuff that invites
list expulsion. Better get him now, Marc, before he joins the
conspiracy.
Mr Poogy Hug-a-Bear
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1993 08:27:36 MST
Sender: New Ways of Thinking List <FNORD-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From: WHIPLASH
Subject: macah indian saying
do not stand at my grave and weep. i am not there. i do not sleep.
i am a thousand winds that blow. i am the diamond glint on snow.
i am the sunlight on ripened grain. i am the gentle autumn rain.
and when you wake in the morning hush, i am the swift
uplifting rush of quiet birds in circling flight.
i am the soft starlight at night.
do not stand at my grave and weep. i am not there. i do not sleep.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1993 15:21:20 -0500
Sender: New Ways of Thinking List <FNORD-L@UBVM.BITNET>
Comments: Warning -- original Sender: tag was
ANONYMOUS.AGENT.OF.REVENGE@SWEET.MISERY.ORG
From: Murali <majcher>
Subject: charlie brown, lucy, and that fucking football
well, due to multiple "what happened?!" requests, I'm once again
sending a personal-ish reply to the list...enjoy.
#####
:> I'm freaking out. No, I'm not freaking out, I'm just having a
:> really bad time - this, too, will pass. Unless a very specific
:> beautiful person convinces me that I've got something better to do
:
:Hmmm. Well, what happened? Take a deep breath. Close your eyes for a
:minute and let the tension out of your shoulders. Sink into your skin.
:Then sit up, face the screen, and spill it. I'm listening. Willow
Okay...well, the "I'm freaking out" thing was all about Stacey
and how she didn't call me friday, and I though that I had lost a good
friend to whatever and all that, but...I got a message on my machine
after I got back from my potential drive to parts unknown (I wound up
just going shopping - food is good), and I called and talked to her
saturday, and it turns out that she had to work unexpectedly - 18
hours that day! So...we chatted and both our schedules are really
tight, but we're going to try to work something for lunch or whatever
like tuesday or wednesday this week...
but that's not the problem now.
know how I said up there about being saved by a very specific
beautiful person? well, that's allyn, a really close friend of mine,
and ... well, we dunno what we are yet.
brief history: thurs - went out to dinner and dancing with
allyn. friday - went out to a play and a party and dinner with allyn.
saturday - went out to another party, allyn met us back at the
Chateau, and we all went to a halloween rave in rochester at about
1AM. did breakfast for 8 at perkins, then drove back to buffalo
around 8 or 9 am. allyn and I had a good talk on the way back (other
occupant of car was asleep), and she drifted off with her head on my
lap for the last 15 minutes or so. So, we get back to the Chateau,
allyn comes in with us, we doze on the couch for a while, and
eventually head back to sleep in my room where it's more comfortable.
So, we slept together (like zzzzzzz sleep, not boy-girl-wakkawakka
sleep), woke up and talked for a couple of hours, lotsa hugs and
holding and stuff. It was dark and snowy and cold outside, so we just
hung out, took our individual showers, had lunch, drank hot chocolate,
held each other, played on the computer, watched videos, and talked a
lot. oh yeah, and it was my housemate's birthday, so we had cake and
ice cream, too. but....things are really weird. a bunch of times, we
were just like, "what are we doing?", because she's still seeing
someone (-ish...complicated story), and I'm still however I am, but it
was really warm and fuzzy and nice and...I haven't felt like that in
_such_ a long time...so, neither of us is sure what's happening, but
we really like each other, and enjoy each other's company, and have a
really good time together, and all sortsa drippy sappy stuff like
that. Oh yeah, and she's moving to NYC in January to go to FIT. I
graduate in December. When she went home around 1AM sunday
night/monday morning (well, actually, she had to go talk to Jeff,
her... whatever...because he apparently stopped by her apt. and was
upset that she wasn't there - or, actually, upset because she spent
the day at my place...), she kept saying how she didn't want to go
because it was so nice and how she had more fun today than she's had
in a long time, and...well, she had class at 9 the next morning, and
had work to do, so she left. it was the first snowfall of the year
here, and it was a cold night. but I slept well. I haven't been this
happy in ... damn, in the longest ol' time...like a year and a half or
so...but, this too will pass. I'm also really sad...maybe not sad,
but...I feel like I could cry again. I haven't really cried in eight
or nine months, not that I haven't had a reason many times, but...I
just didn't have anything in me to come out like that, maybe. But I'm
very happy now - I had wonderful halloween, but...scary, too. How
appropriate...I've sort of been wishing for something to scare me
again, because I just haven't found anything really terrifying in life
recently, and I thought I could use a good scare...and on halloween,
of all days. I don't know...I think I've become very independant and
happy with myself (or maybe I've just been cut-off and cold to
everyone else - it's hard to tell from in here) most of this year, and
it's really scaring me to begin to _feel_ like this towards someone so
close to me again...it's like I'm attatching, investing part of my
soul in this person (who, after thinking by myself a lot, I'm pretty
sure that I'm really in love with, not just a crush or infatuation or
"yknow, I _love_ you, man..." thing, but like Real Love...eeww...and
so I guess I'm gonna have to tell her as soon as I can - one of the
great things about her - or us, that is - is that everything is so
honest and open and there's a certain...purity about it all that I
haven't tasted in...well, I don't know if I've ever even come across
anything like this before...anyway, close parentheses, already), and
therefore, through putting part of myself in this person, running the
_very_ real part of losing that part altogether. I've never tried any
kind of opiates, but I imagine that what went on yesterday was a lot
like that...I felt warm and very comfortable and happy and intoxicated
like that and maybe even loved...and then the feeling slowly faded
(or, actually, is still fading) when she left...I really miss her now,
and it's only been about twelve hours, most of which I was asleep for.
I want more. I want _more_. I don't want to become dependant on
somebody else now, though, after all this time of going through the
fires and icy cold sharpness and loneliness and re-evaluating myself
and coming to terms with just being happy with me, alone, I'd feel
like I was wasting all that time and work and _pain_ if I slipped back
to how I was before, a year and a half ago, before I was forced out
into the world to be alone. I was alone, and eventually, I was happy
being alone. But, now...I have a real chance to be with someone
again...but it's still only a chance. a change. a chance to lose
myself again. a chance to change myself again.
Well, I'm going to take that chance, again. I'll put my hand
into the fire again, and see what happens, again. (Huh heh huh...fire
is cool...huh huh huh...) I'm gonna take a good running start, and
give Lucy's Football one more shot...maybe this time I'll get it. I'm
sure that this isn't going to be without pain, but...it's worth it,
right?
Right?
Updates as they come along...sorry for dumping more angst to
the list....
love y'all...
Murali
*** DO YOU EVEN LOVE ME, MURALI? SO WHY DO YOU HURT ME SO BAD?
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1993 11:20:46 MST
Sender: New Ways of Thinking List <FNORD-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From: WHIPLASH
Subject: majcher speaks
Dear Sir or Madam,
please address the allegations brought before you
as being a vile censorious cretin.
then we'll chat about your love life.
In My Office Majcher,
Laceratis Hypo Luxa
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1993 14:46:11 -0500
Sender: New Ways of Thinking List <FNORD-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From: "C. Bock-Goodner" <LPCL375>
Subject: Things bigger than your head
>Okay now you've done it. I have had much too much of my son's Halloween
>candy to let the subject of religion pass unbeleaguered, Christianity beingthe flavor in >question.
>
A background note. My ex-step-father is a Southern Presbyterian Minister.
Apparently at the time of the civil war the Presbyterian church split into
North and South, the southern church having recently uncovered proof that
African Americans were predestined to become slaves. Bob
(step-father) lost his first church in El Paso, TX by working with
the Poor People's March on Washington and the Grape Pickers Boycott.
He lost his second church (Monticello, AR pop. 4000) after
integrating it. A late night phone call from another city offered us
$35,000 (a lot of money for us at that time) if we would leave town
by May 1st. Apparently the local powers that be felt that he was a
nice man who had not found his niche. We came back to Austin as he
was having trouble finding a job after two disasters. He found a job
as an associate pastor in Austin and later his own church in
Missouri. The point being that both Bob and his congregation members
referred to themselves as Christians, and Southern Presbyterian brand
Christians as well, despite the disparity in their views. So when
you use the term Christian you really are generalizing a bit,
HOWEVER, don't fret, I think we all know very well what you mean and
I couldn't agree with you more.
Here's what I think:
* The problem with religion is that people practice it.
* I refuse to believe that we are the pinnacle of intelligent existence.
* As for what is the pinnacle I wouldn't venture a guess other than to say
that whatever it-is-that-is (tm) I doubt our little pea-brains
are equipped to fully grasp it.
* You can't prove I'm wrong any more than I can prove I'm right so why
bother worrying about specifics and just go with the warm fuzzy
feelings however you find them.
* Remember to watch who you give your money too, they may
not be nice people, or people at all.
After all we are not talking about something ruled by logic are we? For
example, if the Christian groups who are pro-life were being logical about
this they would realize that if there is a God and a Heaven and a right hand
to sit on, it would be much better for a baby soul to be there than here at
the mercy of someone who doesn't want them, can't provide for them,
and may abuse them. When I'm right, I'm right.
There, I've said it, now get out.
Cynthia
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1993 20:57:50 GMT
Sender: New Ways of Thinking List <FNORD-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From: Murali <majcher>
Organization: UB
Subject: Re: majcher speaks
WHIPLASH writes:
>Dear Sir or Madam,
>please address the allegations brought before you
>as being a vile censorious cretin.
I'll cop to the charges of vileness and cretinousness, and
probably a few others that have been thrown out here, but the
intellignensia of the net regard so-called censorship as a mere
transmission error to be solved and circumnavigated. Those that
remain on the list deserve to be here.
I won't defend my actions - well, much. I stand by what I did.
It was more of an experiment than any kind of censorship or discipline
or whatever makes you feel better calling it. On a whim, after doing
a weekly-or-so skim of the list content, I pulled up the charter from
the listserv. (Hm...aw, heck, may as well include it here to refresh
ya'll...) Take a look at it, then take a look at what you're posting.
Seriously. If you really think that you're serving the purpose that
this group was created for, then go ahead and send away. If not, then
you're wasting the time and resources of anyone who has actually come
here expecting what was "advertized". And if you don't care, and post
anyway, more fuckin' power to ya. Just be aware of what you're doing,
and don't make excuses to me, the list, or yourself.
And yeah, I realize that anyone in the world who wants to can
catch this list through the news gateway. That was _why_ we did it
that way from the start. Taking someone off the listserv list isn't
gonna stop 'em from participating - just piss 'em off. Come on,
y'all...you know I've been around this net thing as long as you have,
you think I didn't _know_ what would happen? I pretty much expected
everyone to sign back on after a day or two, some people would just
sit and take it, some people would bitch and moan about censorship,
one or two would mail me to see what happened, one or two more email
pranks - either in retaliation or imitation - would occur, and,
eventually, somebody on the list would call me out, and give me an
opening for a letter like this. If it soothes you at all, just think
of the fnord-l memetic purge as the smoke bomb that goes off before
Darkwing Duck appears in the middle of it all. "I am the terror that
flaps in the night...I am the line noise that knocks you off the
net..." and all that happy shit.
So, I stirred y'all up again, and I'm sure that a lot of you
think that I'm a dick. Those of you that really know me, though, know
that I'm not some tightassed authoritarian tyrannical censor...Marc in
Real Life is probably just as wacky and whatever as the rest of
y'all...but the limited attention I give to fnord-l, I give it in the
persona of list-owner, and not as Fellow Freaky Fnorder. I do admit
that, since the StonyBrook Invasion, I haven't really devoted a whole
lot of effort towards "managing" this list, aside from taking off dead
accounts and givin' y'all a dictator-figure to throw matches at every
now and then, and, of course, keepin' an eye on the kids to see how
they're coming along. But pretty much all of my "serious" net.effort
has gone towards other lists, and other projects, and other virtual
communities that satisfy my needs better. Speaking of which...
>then we'll chat about your love life.
Thanks, but I think I'd have better luck looking for
compassion in a room full of old girlfriends and math teachers. The
"Lucy's Football" posting was a brilliant forgery, forwarding a
posting I made to the leri@pyramid.com list here under my name. Not
that I care - I mean, the net isn't exactly the most confidential
method of communication, barring PGP and the like. Let that be a
lesson to y'all...never say anything (_especially_ on the net) that
you wouldn't want repeated somewhere else. Anything you say 'round
these parts is likely to be picked up and thrown around like an old
one-armed Barbie, 'specially if you're a Jaded Old Fuck like me with
unsavory connections, like the ones I've got in this here squirmin'
pit of humanity. (Heck, for bonus points, the more thoroughly
offended of you can even forward all my posts to Her directly, She
bein' on the net and all...but ya hafta _work_ for it.)
But, whoever did it - that was cold. 'Ts a shame to think
that there's someone on leri that'd do that...ah well, adds that
element of Fear and Mistrust that my life has been lacking lately.
Keeps me on my toes, hm? Gosh, I suppose that my secret is out, my
fnord-l mask is off...do you think it'll matter at all?
As usual...
>In My Office Majcher,
any time, bob.
Mom
*
* This list is for the discussion and implementation of variousviews
* presented by such minds as those of Robert Anton Wilson, Timothy Leary,John
* Lilly, Antero Alli, and Christopher Hyatt.
*
* The human species has gotten past the point of leisurely evolving along.Our
* technology and science are advancing at an ever-accelerating rate, andthis
* is, of necessity, going to effect the way we live and think.
*
* We are quickly developing a need for an ideological mutation, aquick
* reassessing of the way in which we view life, and a restructuring ofthat
* view to integrate the advancing knowledge and technology that isdeveloping.
*
* Nowadays, ideas are changing faster than ever. We can't just "evolve"over
* thousands of years. Look back at the 1950's, or the '60's, how much havewe
* changed since then?
*
* We're working to develop new ideas and philosophies for dealing withthe
* "new world." We, as a species, don't have the time or the room anymorefor
* outdated, closed-minded views like prejudice, bigotry, sexism,conservative
* religious views, etc.
*
* We are interested in the prospect of consciousness expansion and findingnew
* ways of thinking for OURSELVES, we are not content to just follow therest
* of the herd like sheep. It's time to take control of our OWN lives, andto
* act responsibly in making the world a better place to live.
*
--
majcher
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1993 21:22:02 GMT
Sender: New Ways of Thinking List <FNORD-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From: Murali <majcher>
Organization: UB
Subject: New Ways Of Thinking
Oh yeah, and regarding whatever complaints y'all have about
the so-called New Ways Of Thinking-ness of whatever, I didn't make up
the name, I didn't think the name was appropriate for the list, but it
got slapped on there, and it stuck. The list is for what it sez it's
for, and what happens on it happens on it. I personally don't even
come _close_ to "idolizing" Leary or Wilson or whoever - those were just
the "Big Names" that seemed to stick to the list as well. So quit yer
whinin' and caterwaulin' and get the fuck on with it, will ya?
Geez,
Mom
--
majcher
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1993 23:57:44 EST
Sender: New Ways of Thinking List <FNORD-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From: Cuthbert Agonistes <LIBWCA>
Subject: Re: majcher speaks
In-Reply-To: Message of Tue,
2 Nov 1993 20:57:50 GMT from <majcher>
On Tue, 2 Nov 1993 20:57:50 GMT Murali said:
> I won't defend my actions - well, much. I stand by what I did.
>It was more of an experiment than any kind of censorship or discipline
>or whatever makes you feel better calling it. On a whim, after doing
>a weekly-or-so skim of the list content, I pulled up the charter from
>the listserv. (Hm...aw, heck, may as well include it here to refresh
>ya'll...) Take a look at it, then take a look at what you're posting.
>Seriously. If you really think that you're serving the purpose that
>this group was created for, then go ahead and send away. If not, then
>you're wasting the time and resources of anyone who has actually come
>here expecting what was "advertized". And if you don't care, and post
>anyway, more fuckin' power to ya. Just be aware of what you're doing,
>and don't make excuses to me, the list, or yourself.
>
Consider the humble cowfish, Marc. It reaps not, and neither does it
sow. It doesn't HAVE a fancy car, and a nice apartment with fluffy
drapes and a bunch of cats, like some of us. Chances are, on any
given day, it won't even have a sentient thought. And yet, through it
all, day in and day out, the cowfish provides you and all your friends
with the nitrogen that makes up over 95% of the very important ionosphere.
The cowfish doesn't want your thanks, Marc. It doesn't want your snappy
wardrobe, or your Bobby "Boris" Pickett albums. It just wants you to
do right, Marc. That's all. It hurts the cowfish when you don't.
There's a good lad.
Cuthbert
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1993 01:05:05 -0600
Sender: New Ways of Thinking List <FNORD-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From: zeek <zeek>
Subject: SUBSCRIBE <LIFE>
subscribe life <zeek>
--
If human then read:
I wish to make a lifetime subscription to the FNORD-L <New Ways OfDinking>
mailing list.
Thank you,
-z <angel>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1993 23:52:21 -0500
Sender: New Ways of Thinking List <FNORD-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From: moores7518
Subject: Simps
So, there are FNORDians lurking in the wings over in Leriland, conductingemail
espionage, attacking our fair Captain for his ignominious behavior? Two can
play at *that* game, dammit. Watch me subscribe FNORD to Leri, then we'llsee
about New Ways Of Thinking, huh. Hugs and kisses all around, you snivelling
simps.
As a point of fact, I visit FNORD on occasion because I hate life, and hereI
find crystallized the reasons why. Makes me shimmy inside, like the time I
swallowed that window washing fluid. And no fair bitching and moaning about
getting dumped off the list; kee-rist, if anything's in the *spirit* of this
list, it's just plain charging over to yer not-as-witty-as-you neighbor'shouse
and setting 'em on fire. Email pranks, on the other hand, well, we all geta
kick out of those, huh? I remember the time, musta been, oh, hell, I thinkI
was four, dosed to the max, and I forged email from my kindergarten teacherto
my principal that said, "Principal Don, I want to touch your love monkey..."
Gad, those were the days, huh.
Your pal,
Scotto
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1993 07:52:01 EDT
Sender: New Ways of Thinking List <FNORD-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From: EJ Fnord <EJFORD>
Subject: Re: Brent
Marc? Buddy? I was being sarcastic.
Scotto can stick around as long as he wants as far as I am concerned.
Now, as to why other good writers have been bounced...
EJ Fnord
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1993 10:00:20 EST
Sender: New Ways of Thinking List <FNORD-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From: AP <LIBALP>
Subject: Re: Simps
In-Reply-To: Message of Tue,
2 Nov 1993 23:52:21 -0500 from <moores7518>
On Tue, 2 Nov 1993 23:52:21 -0500 <moores7518> said:
>So, there are FNORDians lurking in the wings over in Leriland, conductingemail
>espionage, attacking our fair Captain for his ignominious behavior? Twocan
>play at *that* game, dammit. Watch me subscribe FNORD to Leri, then we'llsee
>about New Ways Of Thinking, huh. Hugs and kisses all around, yousnivelling
>simps.
>
Yup, gotta be a spy. It could never in a zillion years be the case that
Leri-L is heterogenous, right, that some of your listmembers aren't walking
the party line? Yeah, you scoff, but one of these days you'll come
running to Fnord-L trying to find out how to conduct a purge.
Don't lose control, Scotto.
ap
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1993 08:31:19 MST
Sender: New Ways of Thinking List <FNORD-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From: WHIPLASH
Subject: talking is useless
re: majcher's brilliant interlocutory appeal...
wonderful, wonderful old boy. "thanks for the honor
of the reply", he said primly. integrity and all that.
marvelous.
you'll "cop" to the charges, eh? wait, don't tell
me... I remember that! it's one of those words i yewsta
hear on "The Mod Squad"! How very exciting!
Here, let me tell you the part i liked best:
> I stand by what I did.
> It was more of an experiment than any kind of censorship or discipline
> or whatever makes you feel better calling it.
Cooooooooooooool! Can ya show me how to make a baking
soda volcano? I always wanted to make one of those! You know
what? I'll bet you can fly! Why don't you find a nice tall
building and experiment on that?
> Those of you that really know me, though, know
> that I'm not some tightassed authoritarian tyrannical censor
yeah, well, i haven't had the pleasure yet, but i'm *starting* to
feel like i know you...
...kinda like we met before.
> But, whoever did it - that was cold.
<snap! snap!> Enrico! Las Violas!!!
>
> >In My Office Majcher,
>
> any time, bob.
golly, you're a real tough cookie huh? you and danny
solomon, you gots alla answers. always gots a reply.
why don't the two of you invent our new Intellectual
Frontier for all of us? intelligentsia see it as a part
of life huh? you stirrin' us all up, huh? you kind
of a modern day philisophical philanthropist, eh? yeah,
you're gonna plant that first flag on the antarctica of
human reason for all us dumbass hourly wage earners, right?
sure would save the rest of us a lotta lookin'!
hey man. take this list and shove it up your ass.
rh
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1993 10:56:03 EDT
Sender: New Ways of Thinking List <FNORD-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From: EJ Fnord <EJFORD>
Subject: Re: talking is useless
Marc, I take back every nice thing I said to you in those personal
posts this morning. Rob has once again demonstrated why all of you
"neato intellectual types" are just a bunch of fucking squids.
If you are too spineless to confront us verbally at the start, then
crawl back into the pit, you maggot.
I NEVER objected to your right to censor anyone on this list. You
are the list owner. I NEVER objected to anyone pranking in
association with the list. But the responsibilities of listowner
obligate you to play it a bit differently. Your cowardice in
confronting people openly has cheapened the entire list, a fact which
I will happily tell anyone who asks, or even seems interested.
In the mean time, I intend to stick around. I think I want to play
in your little reindeer games for a bit longer...
EJ Ford
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1993 11:04:45 EST
Sender: New Ways of Thinking List <FNORD-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From: AP <LIBALP>
Subject: Re: majcher speaks
In-Reply-To: Message of Tue,
2 Nov 1993 20:57:50 GMT from <majcher>
So let me get this straight: You made a "questionable list-owner" judgment,
but you don't regret it, because we had it coming, because we're not
doing what we're supposed to, although what we're supposed to do isn't
exactly clear because those names on the list description aren't, to be
honest donchaknow, written in stone, blah blah blah....---Got it.
In the past, I've wasted a lot of words trying, in good faith, to give you
some clue about what we do here, and have been rewarded with responses
that revealed a lack of attention and/or comprehension. It's fairly
insulting when someone rewards honest efforts (really) with
scant scrutiny and thought; hence the hostility.
>ya'll...) Take a look at it, then take a look at what you're posting.
>Seriously. If you really think that you're serving the purpose that
>this group was created for, then go ahead and send away. If not, then
>you're wasting the time and resources of anyone who has actually come
>here expecting what was "advertized". And if you don't care, and post
>anyway, more fuckin' power to ya. Just be aware of what you're doing,
>and don't make excuses to me, the list, or yourself.
Oh, thank you! So it's US who aren't aware of what we're doing! And we
thought it was you. My apologies.
>that, since the StonyBrook Invasion, I haven't really devoted a whole
>lot of effort towards "managing" this list, aside from taking off dead
>accounts and givin' y'all a dictator-figure to throw matches at every
>now and then, and, of course, keepin' an eye on the kids to see how
>they're coming along.
>
And how are the kids coming along? Provo, bless his heart,
rushed to our defense. Foss, I hear, is popular among the Leri-L
crowd. Now isn't *that* odd? Foss was The Enemy, wasn't he, the
epitome of the rampling spewage that was Stony Brook; and Leri-L was
supposed to be the refuge for all the Real Thinkers that objected
to the Stony Brook crowd, wasn't it? And yet, there he is, imparting
his brand of wisdom to a receptive audience. How do YOU feel about Foss,
Marc? Still can't see the value when those around you do? Or if you
have been turned on to Foss, what changed? It wasn't Foss, as far as I
can tell. Then the change would have to be in (heavens!) YOUR MIND,
wouldn't it? And if you can learn to dig Foss, there's no telling
what you might dig next, hmmm? Folks are wising up all over; the kids,
it would seem, are doing quite well; better than you, in fact.
I must also mention that I don't care for your brand of prank.
While the rest of us learned long ago to parry and thrust with our
wits, you still rely on junior-high school-yard bully schemes like
unsubbing your listmembers, or sending enormous mailbox-overloading files,
like you did to me once. I'm glad you learned a lesson about things
being reposted in other venues. Fnordian pranks aren't educational
by accident, you know. Your pranks, please note, are merely inconvenient.
If you find yourself resorting to that kind of bullshit because you can't
keep up, perhaps you should bow out gracefully. In other words, I think
it's half-past high time you stopped opening your fucking mouth on this
subject, because you have NOTHING to offer, and never have. Criticizing
Things We Don't Understand is America's National Pastime, and you sir,
are an All-Star.
regards,
ap
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1993 11:56:41 EDT
Sender: New Ways of Thinking List <FNORD-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From: Allison Freeman <AFREEMAN>
Subject: Re: Yes i am a jerky...got a problem with it?
> well...i must say that in the past two months that i have been subscribing(i
> said i am new) i have seen lots happen. Primarily, i have seeninteresting
> posts (at the first) and childish posts (lately). All i want to say isthat i
> think a little more thought could be placed into posting.
And this from a "Jerky".
If you don't like it, leave. Grasp your fate in your left
hand and twist with the right. Unsubscribe yourself you feeb.
Allison Freeman
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1993 11:28:18 CST
Sender: New Ways of Thinking List <FNORD-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From: Melanie Willis <GS0383>
Subject: tell me
I know this will probably annoy many of you, but could somebody please tellme
what's going on? It seems there's been some kind of purge. And this was done
by the list owner, Marc? I don't understand why. The content of this list
hasn't changed in any way that I can tell. Who pissed off who? Who's kidding
who? Is it because of all the fake addresses? I kind of enjoyed not knowing
who was real and who wasn't. I had no idea there were powers-that-be here,or
that they were fascist.
I was really surprised by the vehemence of Arthur's post, but knowing him to
be a reasonable and even thoughtful type of person I feel there must be
something very disgustingly unfair going on here. By the time I got to theend
of his note I was starting to worry that he was going to be kicked outagain.
If wierdos like that what's his name can send notes commenting on the wonder
of anal sex, what in the past few days could have caused the list owner to
react the way he did? Makes no sense to me.
I suspect that this owner person must have had some free time, and maybe he
had a bad day, and events coming together the way they did led to hismessing
with the accounts. Maybe he felt this was in the spirit of good fun or
something, who knows.
Real communication is fragile - it doesn't take much to screw it all up. Say
one of the most amusing of you were hit by a car tomorrow - how would weknow?
If Merciful or EJ were to suddenly fall silent, wouldn't it be a kind ofdeath
in a way? When your existence to me is no more than a screen, your absence
from that screen is equivalent to to death. I think messing with people the
way that guy did is risking screwing up this whole thing and in spite of how
many of you rant and rave and get pissed off you know you love it. Havingsome
place to go where you can be as snarling and disrespectful as you please oras
silly as you want without repercussion is no small thing.
(Also, I am a little insulted that I wasn't considered troublesome enough to
kick off the list. I will have to work on this in the future.)
Thank you.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1993 12:24:52 CST
Sender: New Ways of Thinking List <FNORD-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From: Melanie Willis <GS0383>
Subject: please come back
Please come back all of you who have been thrown out.
And hey, LISTOWNER, why don't you kick me off? Huh? And why don't you tellme
what's so wrong with how it's been?
You don't know what you got till it's gone, you know.
Melanie {and an islandnever cries} Willis
I dare ya
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1993 17:00:26 GMT
Sender: New Ways of Thinking List <FNORD-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From: "Merciful Lee Dickens" <DICKENS>
Subject: shame
Well, folks, I say if the listowner doesn't want us here - fuck him.
Let's take our party elsewhere. He doesn't have a sense of humor
anyway. He's a dweeb. Always has been. I'm out of
here.
Merciful
Line Noise Central Since Way Back
When
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1993 16:14:13 -0500
Sender: New Ways of Thinking List <FNORD-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From: <LIBWCA>
Subject: Re: Yes i am a jerky...got a problem with it?
In-Reply-To: <9311031651.AA16436@ >
On Wed, 3 Nov 1993, I Am A Jerky wrote:
> I said it. Kill me. Unsubscribe me. Ignore me. Flame me. I don'tcare.
> I can find somewhere else to share halfway intelligent ideas if i must.
Not in a killin' mood, and hain't never been much for unsubbing a fella.
Might ignore you if I feel like it, might flame ya. Might listen to ya.
Might respectfully disagree. Might spew rotting body parts all over ya
in an attempt to viscerally elucidate the modern corndition. Might not.
Heat. Kitchen. Bang.
Cuthbert
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1993 18:29:24 -0500
Sender: New Ways of Thinking List <FNORD-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From: <LIBWCA>
Subject: Re: my name off this list NOW
In-Reply-To: <9311032249.AA10473@ >
On Wed, 3 Nov 1993, EJ Fnord wrote:
> FUCK YOU, YOU SCRAMBLE-BRAINED ASSHOLE!@!!!$#$#@#$
>
> Get a fucking clue. Try sneding this to listserv@ubvm.bitnet:
> UNSUBSCRIBE FNORD- L
>
> Have a nice day! :-)
>
> EJ "Smiley Guy" Fnord
>
My, my, EJ. Wake up on the wrong side of the bed of nails this morning,
did we? I'll remind you that this is a Christian list, and that your
foul language and lack of the proper respect for all things insubstantial
can only end with a berth in a Pullman car bound straight for Aitch Eee
Double-Hockey-Stick. Get right with Wotan, young man, or face the
unspeakable consequences.
As for Ludwig Plutonium - he's an interesting enough crank, and I was
sort of hoping he would stick around in order to give us his
comprehensive theory of Yakety-Yak. I didn't subscribe him, but
I congratulate whoever did on sadly stillborn masterwork.
The rest of you can commence to do what you were doing before I turned
your head - if Merciful's truly taken his ball and gone home, then what's
left of the rapidly-diminishing Elite Commando Corps is gonna have to
pull double shifts around here. Capish?
Col. Cuthbert
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1993 19:28:56 -0500
Sender: New Ways of Thinking List <FNORD-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From: <LIBWCA>
Subject: Murali on the horns of a diorama
Mr. Majcher, I sympathize with your plight, sir; truly I do, although
I'm a bit leary (Ha! Ha!) of your Ecclesiatic assertion that you are
able to partition your life neatly into A Time To Be Whacky and A
Time To Be A Booger. That's beside the point, though: I'm here to
help you clarify things. Hold on, now, whilst I throw the I Ching
and alla that hippy voodoo that I do so well, and we'll get this
cow wrestled down and branded, don't you worry.
Here we go. Well, sir, you got a lotta options. You could just
let things slide on pretty much as they were, though I suspect
they won't, what with a number of underlying factors and all. You
could periodically Assert Your Authority, and then sit back and
ride out the Shit-Storm. You could do what Pat used to do, which
seemed to work pretty well for all concerned - swoop in ever once
in a while, click yer tongue a time or two, gather up all the
stray New Thinkers an' whisk 'em off Leri-ward. You could, you
know, maybe talk about alla these New Ways ever now and again,
which really should work, when you think about it - after all,
some of the Youthful Offenders in the crowd have even read those
guys, and could discuss them with erudition and a certain swagger -
might do 'em good, shining in front of their peers and so forth-
give 'em a little self-respect. This used to happen from time to time,
but generally the convo would stray from the perscribed New Ways, and
some of the New Thinkers would get irate, and keep pointing to
the syllabus, and then things would get ugly and Pat would swoop
in and... well, you know. At any rate, things have probably
gotten too far gone for that. New Thinkers are routinely killed
and eaten around here now-a-days, but I blame you for that, Sally,
and I'm not gonna tell ya why, so there.
Alternatively, you could just pull the plug on the whole goddamn
mess, right? Bring on the Killing Rain, wash out the sewers, and
let the lot of us fend for ourselves, try to land on our feet,
and so forth. It's what we deserve, after all, and we've brought
it on ourselves. We have only ourselves to blame. Someday we'll
rue the missed opportunities. We could have learned from the New
Thinkers, ya know, but we didn't. We deliberately scoffed at the
Established Ground Rules, without which Society Just Really Can't
Function, and it might do us some good to Pay The Price for our
Malfeasance. When it comes right down to it, we've Used Our God-
Given Talents for Evil. And that just ain't right, Sally. You
know it ain't.
Tell you what, though. Let us have a party before you blow the
joint. You bring the booze, okay? After all, it's only fair, what
with the way you're destroying the Only Home We've Ever Known, and
all. Sure, go ahead, close the place down, but Be It On Your Head,
Sally, when we all grow up to be Juvenile Delinquents. With Proper
Guidance, we could have channeled all this energy into socially
useful pursuits, but nobody had the time to wipe our little
bottoms and provide the Gentle Correction that might of kept us
from this Sorry Pass. You really are a heartless bastard, aren't
you, Sally? Aren't you? Huh?
Does anybody remember what I was talking about? I think it started
out to be something about Fluffy Bunnies; but youse mugs distracted
me. Now we're stuck with this squalid mess, and I can't see any way
to turn it around at this point. You'll all just have to live with
what you've made me do, I suppose, and hope I don't decide to Seek
Redress.
Well, I'm all done. Anybody?
Cuthbert C. Cuthbert
Meddling in Things Best Left Alone Since his horse came back without him
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1993 22:16:08 EST
Sender: New Ways of Thinking List <FNORD-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From: "Daniel A. Foss" <DFOSS@CCVM.SUNYSB.EDU>
Organization: State University of New York at Stony Brook
Subject: tell you this much
Dear Stephanie Willis:
Way it looked to me, there was a They that was doing a Something. Not
real enough to constitute or represent a subculture that generated a genre;
call it a not-quite essence which was constituted by its making up a not-
exactly, that is to say, an it-would-be-really-stretching-it-to-call-it a
mode of expression. This They does not include us. For my part, I can't do
it. Getting too old. Have reached that stage of senility where I ask myself,
can the reader figure out what I'm trying to do? And write nothing. Or, do
I myself have to know what I'm doing before I hit the SEND key? And write
nothing. Another thing is, you almost certainly, to do it, have got to be
good with dirty words and squashed-wormy Thingies, which I am not. A nice
Jewish boy, guilt-ridden.
So I watched the They do it, and I envied the They that They could do it,
I wished I could be a proper adolescent before I croaked, but I couldn't and
I won't. Lapsing into criticism, I posited that a point would be attained or
would occur such that the not-quite-Thingie had attained the maximum antici-
pable maturity; would grow stale; would thereafter decline. Which indeed
happened; or, the point was passed. Everything after that, esthetically,
even though I had no taste, you understand, I could imagine an abstract
reader who could appreciate what I couldn't, you got that, would, as I
was saying, be construable as Late.
Is that clear?
Well, now that the not-quite-was was in its Late or Decadent (relative to
its creative-developental-genesis type Thingie, if you follow that, asopposed
to any decadent-in-the-absolute-sense) Phase, it was incumbent upon me, inall
honesty, to shut up altogether, even more completely that when thenot-actually
existent not-even-Thingie was burgeoning with vitality.
Because I couldn't do it.
Many were the days I wanted to say, "Do something else, because if this
were real enough to have a name, which it fortunately isn't, it would betime
to stop doing [name] on account of, [name] has got boring." Which it wasn't,
of course. Though my own qualms about authenticity, which I told the Leri
people at tedious lentgth I didn't believe in, and still don't *believe* in,
but it's emotionally tough to go around all the time without a I, if you got
that, would not necessarily apply to anyone else.
But anyone with the power to pull the plug who did so would necessarily
come up with an unreal rationalization for why the plug was pulled onsomething
which didn't actually exist altogether. If you see the logic in that. The
listowner, it figures, appealed to the fake FNORD-L constitution, so tospeak,
and got accused of appealing to first principles which were unreal to begin
with, which is perfectly true. Still and all, if the show weren't taken off
the air, there wouldn't have been a list for the listowner to own, after a
while. There may not, anyway. It also figures that our colleague in Auburn,
Mr Merciful, whose commitment of sheer energy to the quasi-enterprise was
truly astonishing, should have announced his departure.
And that, with all due pomposity, I'm sorry, was the story of something
that could not have amounted to something; that never quite was at all. Not
even a zit scarring the face of human cultural history. Now over. Which is
not to say that it may not recrudesce or metastasize; Late Thingies areoften
followed, firstly, by Post, then by Neo, you must be familiar with that;there
are Revivals better than Originals; but this wasn't even a fully fledged
Thingie.
I don't understand Creative people at all, do you?
Regards,
Daniel A. Foss
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1993 23:40:14 GMT
Sender: New Ways of Thinking List <FNORD-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From: Murali <majcher>
Subject: Re: please come back
Melanie Willis <GS0383> writes:
>You don't know what you got till it's gone, you know.
Ain't that reason enough to waste it right off?
Marc
--
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1993 22:16:42 -0500
Sender: New Ways of Thinking List <FNORD-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From: moores7518
Subject: Re: Simps
> Yup, gotta be a spy. It could never in a zillion years be the casethat
> Leri-L is heterogenous, right, that some of your listmembers aren'twalking
> the party line? Yeah, you scoff, but one of these days you'll come
> running to Fnord-L trying to find out how to conduct a purge.
>
> Don't lose control, Scotto.
>
> ap
Some of my listmembers not walking the party line? Wull, shit, hoss, howabout
*ME* for example? I fucking like it here, and what's more, if I decide tolose
control, then....umm, that's...umm, a decision I will...then...have made.
Yes, SIR, nothing like a bigantall bottle of ROBITUSSIN to start the nightoff
right!
Your pal,
Scotto
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1993 22:25:04 -0500
Sender: New Ways of Thinking List <FNORD-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From: moores7518
Subject: FNORD-L national anthem
So then, get this, this is the funny part, I make a crack about subbingFNORD
to Leri, cuz I think that's funny, and then, somebody tops me, somebody subs
Leri to FNORD instead, and Leri gets a *deluge*, musta been, what, four,five
entire posts before the Captain stepped in and fixed the situation. Hell,I'll
say it, I was on the verge of declaring war, subbing FNORD up to Leri and
FutureCulture and Aleph and Tribe and then watching some sneaky FNORDian subus
up to Cattle-L and every other listserv dungheap this side of theMississippi,
boy, talk about new ways of thinking, what the fuck would we all have talked
about, other than "GET ME THE FUCK OFF OF THESE LISTS!!!" Damn, I'll bet Mondowoulda written about THAT one.
But hey, I'm compassionate, I'm loving, honest, there's that side of me that
just wants to hug and kiss the hell out of every last one of you, but when I
get in moods like that, I just head to Leri. And when I'm in my hateful,
spiteful, cynical, and of course, profoundly insightful moods, lately, I've
wandered back here, because here, yes, friends, right here on FNORD-L, I've
found, first of all, some of the finest performance art on the Net I believe
I've ever seen, and furthermore,
Listen, Marc, the whole *aesthetic* of this place is a New Way of Thinking.
That's the angle here.
I don't give a hoot about kissing and making up; I think it'd be hystericalif
we all just hated each other and had to live here anyway, or chose to livehere
anyway, or what not. And anyhow, it's not anyone in particular I hate, not
you, Dana, nor you Libalp, or EJ title character, or Melanie who couldn'tget
herself kicked out of a barn-raising if she charged through with a chainsaw,or
you holder who recently shoved this entire list up someone's ass and godknows
what that did to my complexion....no, I just pretty much am not too fond of
*existence* in general, which is no big deal, I think Kierkegaard startedthat,
or who knows, maybe it *was* Leary who got us into this mess.
Stick around, folks, because this place will soon become very *sticky*, I
guarantee it. Or my name isn't Merciful Lee Dickens.
Your pal,
Scotto
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