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=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 1994 01:09:06 EST
Sender: New Ways of Thinking List <FNORD-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From: Thumbelina <TIPPY>
Subject: Leri
I think if I had written the oh-so-naive Leri FAQ I'd refrain from passing
judgement on anyone, no matter how stupid. But that's just me.
Net-trippingly yours,
Thumbelina
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 1994 02:58:58 EST
Sender: New Ways of Thinking List <FNORD-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From: Punk-Smasher <TIPPY>
Subject: Bring Your Shrimp Fork!
Scotto,
By all means, you and your shrimp fork are invited. Your arrogance ismatched
only by your presumptuousness, punk. I guess every batch of younguns thinks
they were the first to discover anything of worth. I read all the writers
you so venerate long ago and the only one of them I truly respect is Lilly.
Wilson was good as a source to other, more original thinkers and can still
be fun on occasion. Leary is a flaming ASSWIPE! That whole no-ego ego shit.
Acid as a means of anything more than a good time is purely illusory. Your
post is a good EXAMPLE of the "enlightened consciousness" at work.
At least I don't kid myself that my posts to Fnord are anything more than
crap. Why should I write something interesting? So I can engage the Kidd in
stimulating conversation? But your FAQ was written with a "straight" face.
So I reiterate, sonny boy, come and see me. Anytime, punk.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 1994 19:26:27 -0600
Sender: New Ways of Thinking List <FNORD-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From: moores7518
Subject: Re: Whipping Postmodern
> Didja ever open a can of green beans and find corn inside instead?
> Didja eat it anyway?
>
> L.O.T.S.
Didja ever open up L.O.T.S.'s skull looking for brain matter and findpetroleum
jelly instead?
Didja rip his fucking heart out with a shrimp fork anyway?
S.C.O.T.T.O.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 1994 17:48:37 -0600
Sender: New Ways of Thinking List <FNORD-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From: moores7518
Subject: Re: Leri
> I think if I had written the oh-so-naive Leri FAQ I'd refrain frompassing
> judgement on anyone, no matter how stupid. But that's just me.
>
> Net-trippingly yours,
> Thumbelina
I think if you had written the oh-so-naive Leri FAQ, you'd be in a lotbetter
position to pass judgment on someone who had written the oh-so-naive LeriFAQ,
but until then, there are some grooves I don't mind taking the heat for. To
whit, someday all the cynics will remember why the Lord God inventednaivete.
It's fun!
Imprintingly yours,
Scottlina
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 1994 17:49:32 -0600
Sender: New Ways of Thinking List <FNORD-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From: moores7518
Subject: Re: Bring Your Shrimp Fork!
In article <FNORD-L%94021503164791@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>, Punk-Smasher
<TIPPY> writes:
> Scotto,
> By all means, you and your shrimp fork are invited. Your arrogance ismatched
> only by your presumptuousness, punk. I guess every batch of youngunsthinks
> they were the first to discover anything of worth. I read all thewriters
> you so venerate long ago and the only one of them I truly respect isLilly.
> Wilson was good as a source to other, more original thinkers and canstill
> be fun on occasion. Leary is a flaming ASSWIPE! That whole no-ego egoshit.
> Acid as a means of anything more than a good time is purely illusory.Your
> post is a good EXAMPLE of the "enlightened consciousness" at work.
> At least I don't kid myself that my posts to Fnord are anything morethan
> crap. Why should I write something interesting? So I can engage the Kiddin
> stimulating conversation? But your FAQ was written with a "straight"face.
> So I reiterate, sonny boy, come and see me. Anytime, punk.
Dear Punk-Smasher,
You're kinda cute.
Sincerely,
Scotto-Smasher
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 1994 17:02:22 EST
Sender: New Ways of Thinking List <FNORD-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From: Godot <TIPPY>
Subject: Maggot Sex
During the Vietnam "police action" certain individuals in the Pentagon were
concerned about whether "our" boys had what it took to drop lots of bombs on
"the enemy" and still be able to sleep at night. Would this apparentviolation
of the time-honored American tradition of FAIR PLAY, not to mention THOUSHALT
NOT KILL, the indiscriminate mass-murder of countless people withwall-to-wall
carpet-bombing, haunt the men's consciences and perhaps adversely affecttheir
job performance. Inquiring minds wanted to know, so psychological studies
were undertaken. As it turned out, THEY needn't have worried. People seemed
to experience some reluctance to inflict pain on someone they could actually
see, though most complied with the requests to do so if issued from an"auth-
ority." Their reluctance, however, seemed to wane as the perceived"distance"
between them and that of their "victims" increased. People had little diffi-
culty inflicting pain, or so they were led to believe, on someone whose re-
sponse was mediated to, say, words on a teletype. Hmmmmm....
If you don't know what an "old way of thinking" is, how the hell can youknow
what a new one is? To take a recent example, "The only constant is change."
Heraclitus said this approximately 500 years before Christ, albeit morepoet-
ically. I remain skeptical about most so-called NEW ways of thinking. Most
are "old ways" with a metaphorical make-over.
Scotto, despite your devotion to things Panglossian, I think the future will
show most cynics to have been have hopelessly optimistic. If it's anyconsol-
ation, I really HOPE I'm wrong. I don't know if you'd have said your bit ifI
had been in the same room with you. I probably would have said mine, because
I'm a psychopath who only has access to a computer because of some misguided
attempt at therapy at The Institute for the Criminally Insane where I live.
Kidd, I can't wait to take a walk on the, oh, never mind!
REMEMBER DOODS!!!!CYBER BARNEY ROOLS!!!!!!!!
DADA for now!
Godotto
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 1994 22:01:25 EST
Sender: New Ways of Thinking List <FNORD-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From: Steve Baynes <steve@>
Subject: Every man fer 'imself!
Dear M. Godotto,
I am terribly sorry to have to "pick a bone" (the left femur
would be just fine) *but* I have to ask you where,
in-the-name-of-all-that-is-Holy, did you get the cock-eyed
notion that there is some "time-honored American tradition of
FAIR PLAY"???
I, fer one, cannot think of a *single-solitary* conflict that
We, the U.S. of A., have been involved in for over 200 (count
'em) years, that we have excercized *anything* resembling
"FAIR PLAY". And, military history is one of my strong points.
If you think of one, I wanna hear about it.
And, as for "THOU SHALT NOT KILL", why, that sparks of
Judeo-Christian fantasy. Killin' is one of the things we do
best, despite our moral dilemmas.
People-Killin'-People: that's what America is all about!
It's not a Way-Of-Thinking, it's a proud tradition -- there
ain't no thinkin' to it -- carried on by our own Gun Lobby and
our Fine Inner City Youths.
Excuse me, I gotta go vent my frustration and hostility on some
defenseless primate.
Soldierin' Savage
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 1994 02:18:39 EST
Sender: New Ways of Thinking List <FNORD-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From: ROBOTO <TIPPY>
Subject: Re: Maggot Sex
Beamish, my boy, I was talking about the participants in the experiment,
not American troops, who were just the motivating force behind the experi-
ment. We would all be deeply comforted if we THOUGHT people only did horri-
ble things because they were brainwashed. Read _Radical Man_, edited bysome-
one I can't recall at the moment, or _The Banality of Evil_ by HannahArendt.
Fact is, you, I, and most other people reading this would do horriblethings,
NOT necessarily out of malice, but to avoid ruffling the feathers of"author-
ity" or to win their acceptance. Happens everyday, by "GOOD" people. I don't
think I claimed it was a new way of thinking. I think I expressedskepticicism
at just such a concept. I used it to illustrate a point about the mediated
environment of the Net. Perhaps I did so poorly. My example was not meant to
single you out personally. It just came to mind.
The Goon Squad
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 1994 02:35:44 EST
Sender: New Ways of Thinking List <FNORD-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From: DOG-2 <TIPPY>
Subject: Re: Every man fer 'imself!
FAIR PLAY was meant sarcastically, but as I abhor the Net convention of the
"smiley," ugh, I even hate the term, to convey sarcasm (or anything, forthat
matter), I left it to the individual to interpret as they may, which wouldbe
the case, even had I used the, uh, you know. In all fairness, though, the
sixties were a different time and many of the troops sent to Vietnam were
from the "Heartland" and took the notion of fair play seriously, as befitted
their Christian brainwashing, hence the General's concerns. Violence isindeed
our number one export commodity, for which my American heart bursts with
pride. There, that ought to shut up all those anti-American naysayers.
Og Mandingo
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 1994 02:51:59 EST
Sender: New Ways of Thinking List <FNORD-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From: go dog go <TIPPY>
Subject: Re: Every man fer 'imself!
Don't worry. The revolution is by invitation only.
Go Man Van Gogh
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 1994 05:58:08 EST
Sender: New Ways of Thinking List <FNORD-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From: Mimsy Groves <TIPPY>
Subject: Those Darn Doomsayers
Beamish, funny, but I don't seem to recall you sweeping anyone out of here.
They left as an act of pity, or because they were bored with shooting fish
in a barrel. I, for one, shall miss them (at least, most of them) and their
zany, madcap ways. And, as PJ says, you're not rid of me. CyberCritic fills
my heart (recovering nicely from the shrimp fork wounds, thanks for asking)
with hope that wit shall be present, even if as a lone gunman.
Kidd, the dictionary has another...oh, never mind!
Remember, CYBER BARNEY ROOLS!!!!!! are in effect until further notice.
Obstipately yours,
Mimsy
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 1994 11:05:48 -0400
Sender: New Ways of Thinking List <FNORD-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From: Lee Newman <GN4917>
Subject: Re: Every man fer 'imself!
You've misse the point, The Vietnam War and Inner City violence are exactly
the same. A majority of the American population lives in Suburbian areas,
uneffected by the savageness. Not only that, but the government has been
a poor strategist once again, because it is in their interest for theviolence
to continue. The drug trade would stop and if the gangs ever got togetherin
a solid truce, the police would be fucked. See that's why the Media HAS tosay
that the truce is falling apart a year after it started and having that bethe
only mention of it in the news, except for a brief interval right before the
intial LA riots. It is in everyone's interest for the wars to continue,except
for the black youths who are engaged. Unless, they realize that soon, the
Seperationist idea you talk about will never even be thought of, becauseright
now they are not thinking in any socio-political realm, they are merelyacting.
The truce was the first time they EVER thought, and unless they can keep the
Media's Bullshit at BAy, it is the black community that will be destroyed.
--Contengency
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 1994 13:44:52 -0400
Sender: New Ways of Thinking List <FNORD-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From: scott lesser <LESSER>
Subject: NOTES ON BULLSHIT LIBERAL CRACKER PHILOSOPHY
what the fuck do any of you know about what
the black community needs or wants? isn't
this list essentially a bunch of priveleged
white folk typing away from the comfort and
safety of ivory towers and happy, little
drudge jobs out in corporate amerika?
you go around quoting malcolm x, but you
miss the whole point - equality for blacks
in this country, in the end, won't come out
of your ivy-covered buildings or oak-panelled
meeting rooms, but from the black community
itself.
it's one thing to sympathize with the cause,
but don't make the mistake that you even
come close to knowing what's right for it.
that's as insulting as open racism.
read a little amiri baraka (leroi jones) for
some perspective on revolution,
intellectualism, and race relations...
baraka is a poet and playwright who often
gets lumped in with the Beat writers, and
was a part of the '60's NYC boho scene. he
was a close friend of many white artists and
intellectuals, and was married to a white
woman for a while. his plays address issues
of revolution, inter-racial relations, and
black history. opened my eyes, studying his
work did.
often wonder if dfoss has any stories about him,
as i i believe baraka is still teaching at
suny/stonybrook. daniel?
scott
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 1994 14:08:09 -0500
Sender: New Ways of Thinking List <FNORD-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From: Beamish Boy <bwmatteo@TITAN.UCS.UMASS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Those Darn Doomsayers
I was speaking metaphorically of course, The observant listmember would
not that I too left previously. I don't really miss them all, 'cept maybe
EJ. Oh well no time to write now.
-Beamish.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 1994 22:06:42 EST
Sender: New Ways of Thinking List <FNORD-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From: God2 <TIPPY>
Subject: Reply to Beamish
Beamish, I wasn't referring to American troops, who provided the impetus for
the experiment, but the participants in the experiments, who were civilian.
The experimenter was, I believe, Dr. Milgram (see _Radical Man_, edited by
someone whose name eludes me.) I was not commenting on the Viet Nam war or
its policies, but was attempting to make a point about the mediated environ-
ment of the Net. The truth is you or I or most people, under the rightcircum-
stances and being no more "brainwashed" than we are at present, are capableof
horrible acts, NOT necessarily out of malice, but to avoid angering or tocurry
favor with "authorities." Read _The Banality of Evil_ by Hannah Arendt. Hope
this clears things up.
On a related point, I think I expressed skepticism at the notion of "newways
of thinking," not that I was holding myself up as an example of such.
Dogot
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 1994 23:27:46 -0500
Sender: New Ways of Thinking List <FNORD-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From: "IT'S OK TO EAT FISH CUZ THEY DON'T HAVE ANY FEELINGS..."
<ABS002>
Subject: Re: NOTES ON BULLSHIT LIBERAL CRACKER PHILOSOPHY
>what the fuck do any of you know about what
>the black community needs or wants? isn't
>this list essentially a bunch of priveleged
>white folk typing away from the comfort and
>safety of ivory towers and happy, little
>drudge jobs out in corporate amerika?
i am a priveleged white guy typing away from the comfort and safety of an
ivory tower (if such could be said of Drake Univ). but drake is locatedabout
2 blocks from the "bad section" of des moines (ie-black urban communities,
drive by shootings, liquor store on every corner, etc.). about three blocks
from drake in this "bad section" is a Pathfinder Bookstore. as you may ormay
not know, pathfinder is the stomping ground for the socialist party. on
saturday (the 19th) i am speaking to a group of people who show up. i willnot
be speaking about socialism per se, but instead will talk about malcolm x.i
have been researching this for the past week or two by talking to people inour
community about what malcolm x means today, in addition to (of course)reading
malcolm x's speaches. so i think i'm kinda qualified to make the judgements
that i have, in the same sense that others consider themselves qualified to
compare inner city violence with the wars that this country has beeninvolved
in.
>you go around quoting malcolm x, but you
>miss the whole point - equality for blacks
>in this country, in the end, won't come out
>of your ivy-covered buildings or oak-panelled
>meeting rooms, but from the black community
>itself.
i agree with you to an extent. so did malcolm x. the question is, why do thei
mportant
black leaders keep getting killed?
>it's one thing to sympathize with the cause,
>but don't make the mistake that you even
>come close to knowing what's right for it.
>that's as insulting as open racism.
if it's insulting to think that i know what is right for the blackcommunity,
then how can you say that the black community needs to help itself? isn'tthat
just as insulting? i'm gonna quote malcolm x again, so please bear with me.
The young generation of whites, Blacks, browns - you're living at a
time of revolution, a time when there's got to be a change. People
in power have misused it, and now there has to be a change, and a
better world has to be built.
Malcolm X (Oxford, England, Dec 3, 1964)
just as it's not the white community's place to dictate what must changewithin
the black community, it's not the black community's place to dictate whatmust
change within the white community (as Malcolm X alludes to in an earlyspeech).
this is a communal problem. we are not capable of solving this situation as
seperate communities. that approach defines the problem, not the solution.
>read a little amiri baraka (leroi jones) for
>some perspective on revolution,
>intellectualism, and race relations...
>baraka is a poet and playwright who often
>gets lumped in with the Beat writers, and
>was a part of the '60's NYC boho scene. he
>was a close friend of many white artists and
>intellectuals, and was married to a white
>woman for a while. his plays address issues
>of revolution, inter-racial relations, and
>black history. opened my eyes, studying his
>work did.
actually, i've just started reading some of baraka's stuff. right now i'm
reading:
The Phenomenon of Soul in African-American Music
Class Struggle in Music
The Great Music Robbery
from _Essays_. while all three are, of course, focused on music, bakarastill
makes quite a few assertions about his own view of black nationalism. i
haven't finished them, and haven't really had time to digest them, but wheni
have i'll post some thoughts if anyone's interested. =)
>often wonder if dfoss has any stories about him,
>as i i believe baraka is still teaching at
>suny/stonybrook. daniel?
truth to tell, i'm awful interested as well.
>scott
alex
jerky
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 1994 18:55:27 -0600
Sender: New Ways of Thinking List <FNORD-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From: moores7518
Subject: Re: Maggot Sex
> Scotto, despite your devotion to things Panglossian, I think the futurewill
> show most cynics to have been have hopelessly optimistic. If it's anyconsol-
> ation, I really HOPE I'm wrong. I don't know if you'd have said your bitif I
> had been in the same room with you. I probably would have said mine,because
> I'm a psychopath who only has access to a computer because of somemisguided
> attempt at therapy at The Institute for the Criminally Insane where Ilive.
Dear Godot,
It's about time you showed up! Ha ha ha!
Scotto
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Feb 1994 02:19:59 EST
Sender: New Ways of Thinking List <FNORD-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From: Some Velvet Morning <TIPPY>
Subject: DeSade Truth
"what makes you say this?"
A surprisingly small amount of money, actually. Truly, 'tis the *mark* of
a civilized person.
I meant to say, "Acid as a means of anything more than illusory is a good
time." Sorry for any confusion this may have caused.
Dig, if dig we must.
Don't believe everything you read.
---The Mole from the Ministry
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Feb 1994 03:51:53 EST
Sender: New Ways of Thinking List <FNORD-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From: Purple Hayes <TIPPY>
Subject: 'Scuze me, while I clean my mind...
Yes, Beamish, the mass brainwashing you speak of is socialization, a phenom-
enon known to dentists. Raised to a High Art by longshoremen during the late
Cretaceous (see_The Flowering of Culture_ by C. Scottie Roon), it waslowered
soon after, in response to some people in the back (see _Put it Down,Please,
I Can't See the Telly_ by Kitty Malone.) It was, however, voted evolutionary
trait most likely to succeed three years running by a panel of judges at
Cannes. Ah, what the hell do the French know? Still, tried to find a parking
space lately? (See _The Waltz of the Penguins: Marxism and Parking_ by F.T.
"Bleeding" Meniscus, if you haven't.) "You must not grow up to be a lonewolf.
The lone wolf belongs to the wilderness." That much-publicized bittercustody
battle, remember? And I'll bet you don't even remember signing the social
contract, do you? (See _How to Prosper in the Coming Neo-Feudalism_ by the
political party of your choice). Just don't get too big for your breaches(see
article, "Philosophical Nihilism: What's in it for me?" by Harold Bray,A.G.,
in _The Journal of Circular Reasoning_, Oct. '85). Incidentally, Bray is not
the much-lauded creator of "Little Orphan Annie" {see _A Feminist Critiqueof
Obstipatriarchy_ by Jill D. Rey (this is and never was a most illuminating
brand of text,)} and is, in fact, seldom mistaken as such (see _MaterialCul-
ture and the Slow Death of Meaning_ by Abner Cadaver.) So, uh, yeah, I guess
I see what you mean, basically.
Opting for Secret Honor,
Wile E. Peyote
The People's Choice
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