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=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 1994 08:49:17 -0500
Sender: New Ways of Thinking List <FNORD-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From: GILBERT VANBUREN WILKES IV <WILKES@>
Subject: Some random notes
_Random_notes:_
(a) Why not "penultimate politics" as opposed to the awkward
and inelegant formulation: "next to last politics?"
(b) A meme is not a reification (in the more common sense or
in the Marxist sense of the term (ala brother Lukacs))
and a reification is not (necessarily) a meme. Let us
not be sloppy with our terms. Please consult the
bibliographies i've included with earlier contributions
to the list (those dealing with meme theory). The
replicating gene is to phenotype as the replicating meme
is to human culture - and further, the meme does not
exist. The "meme" is merely a theoretical conceit, an
analogical datum, a technical metaphor, a way of
thinking about the way brains behave.
(c) i firmly disagree with the rumor, now utterly rampant,
and must firmly and with supreme vigor of prosody and
every rigor of argument oppose the rumor, which rumor
now having snow-balled and having taken upon itself a
life and a substance all of its own, the particular
rumor that the FNORD beau monde are but technophile
manques, word-fetishists of the on-line samizdat, rank
academy plebes, and the still active (and functioning
under deep-cover, their activities concealed perhaps
even from themselves!) agent provocateurs (whose
principle instruments of terror are bad grammar, sloppy-
thinking pretending to gesture toward some degree of
twisted profundity, empty name-dropping, tortured
metaphors and horrid spelling) for a now defunct jack-
booted reactionary front group bent upon overthrowing
the rich and democratizing cultural inheritance of our
common tongue (to the end that only a goose-stepping
elite would ever be capable of the political awareness,
historical consciousness and continuity of collective
action that only sustained, meaningful communication may
confer upon a body of people and these elite few would
thereby necessarily rule with a (velvet-gloved) iron-
fist the helpless, pidgin-patios-gibbering and therefore
marginalized many) and are therefore entirely
irrelevant. Planet of the toadies?
No. As the facts will plainly demonstrate, they are but
petite mystagogues, small-time dilettantes, micro-
memoids, pygmy-poseurs and only the most lumpen of the
lumpen proles. Dangerous only to themselves. Though i
must grudgingly (and only under the most strident
protest) concede (and do so only eye-ball to eye-ball in
the face of incontrovertible and irrefutable evidence)
that they are entirely and embarrassingly irrelevant to
any known discourse community, i must again insist that
we not be sloppy with our terms.
i must concede, though with only the most profound
regret, that the FNORD list is but a stagnant meme-pond,
now having frozen over. Alas, the FNORD list is but the
private toxic dumping-ground and personal message-base
of an irrelevant few.
(d) Someone on the list wants to (and its embarrassing even
to repeat such an absurd archaism) "take our women" from
us. For a list that bills itself as a forum for "new
ways of thinking" the above rather smacks of a very OLD
way of thinking. What atavistic caprice comes next? Are
you going to paint yourselves blue? Shoot poison arrows
at us? Burn our huts? Steal our souls and bury them all
sealed them in earthen jars?
On this tiny planet, whoever you are, we do not "own"
women and therefore, they cannot be taken. If you desire
the attentions of a woman, you're going to have to run
the same bloody gauntlet of utterly bewildering social
and cultural practices (which determine the distribution
of gender roles) that the rest of us must run ... good
luck ...
(e) Discursive practice: Extrapolated by Foucault from the
Marxist use of the term "practice" as any
transformative labor. A discursive "practice,"
therefore, is the way a "discourse" gets made (such as
film discourse) - in material terms. A discursive
practice is "a body of anonymous rules, historical
rules, always determined in time and space that have
defined a given period, and for a given social economic,
geographical or linguistic area, the conditions of
operation of the enunciative function." (Foucault 176)
Or in other words, that body of "anonymous" rules,
determined by very material, "historical rules" (rules
like, who is in charge, who has all of the gold, and so
forth), which further determines the range of
possibility for what gets said and what does not get
said (the production of statements within a given
"discourse"). Extrapolated to the idea of film-
production, a discursive practice is that range of
material/historical forces which determine what may be
cast into film.
Foucault, Michel. _The_Archaeology_of_Knowledge_&_The_
_Discourse_on_Language._ Smith, A.M. Sheridan.
Trans. New York: Pantheon Books 1972.
NON SERVIAM
g.v.w. iv
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 1994 09:12:21 -0500
Sender: New Ways of Thinking List <FNORD-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From: Bill Anderson <LIBWCA>
Subject: What have you people done to this place?
In-Reply-To: <9401111351.AA05113@>
GEEKY FOUR-EYED INTELLECTUAL GILBERT VAN BUREN NIMROD IV ESQ. WRITES:
> (a) Why not "penultimate politics" as opposed to the awkward
> and inelegant formulation: "next to last politics?"
Because "penultimate" is the sort of word one finds being used by
men of the cloth as they attempt to close down perfectly good brothels.
> (b) A meme is not a reification (in the more common sense or
> in the Marxist sense of the term (ala brother Lukacs))
> and a reification is not (necessarily) a meme. Let us
> not be sloppy with our terms. Please consult the
> bibliographies i've included with earlier contributions
> to the list (those dealing with meme theory). The
> replicating gene is to phenotype as the replicating meme
> is to human culture - and further, the meme does not
> exist. The "meme" is merely a theoretical conceit, an
> analogical datum, a technical metaphor, a way of
> thinking about the way brains behave.
You make my head hurt, Gilbert Van Buren Week-Knees III.
> (c) i firmly disagree with the rumor, now utterly rampant,
> and must firmly and with supreme vigor of prosody and
> every rigor of argument oppose the rumor, which rumor
> now having snow-balled and having taken upon itself a
> life and a substance all of its own, the particular
> rumor that the FNORD beau monde are but technophile
> manques, word-fetishists of the on-line samizdat, rank
> academy plebes, and the still active (and functioning
> under deep-cover, their activities concealed perhaps
> even from themselves!) agent provocateurs (whose
> principle instruments of terror are bad grammar, sloppy-
> thinking pretending to gesture toward some degree of
> twisted profundity, empty name-dropping, tortured
> metaphors and horrid spelling) for a now defunct jack-
> booted reactionary front group bent upon overthrowing
> the rich and democratizing cultural inheritance of our
> common tongue (to the end that only a goose-stepping
> elite would ever be capable of the political awareness,
> historical consciousness and continuity of collective
> action that only sustained, meaningful communication may
> confer upon a body of people and these elite few would
> thereby necessarily rule with a (velvet-gloved) iron-
> fist the helpless, pidgin-patios-gibbering and therefore
> marginalized many) and are therefore entirely
> irrelevant. Planet of the toadies?
>
> No. As the facts will plainly demonstrate, they are but
> petite mystagogues, small-time dilettantes, micro-
> memoids, pygmy-poseurs and only the most lumpen of the
> lumpen proles. Dangerous only to themselves. Though i
> must grudgingly (and only under the most strident
> protest) concede (and do so only eye-ball to eye-ball in
> the face of incontrovertible and irrefutable evidence)
> that they are entirely and embarrassingly irrelevant to
> any known discourse community, i must again insist that
> we not be sloppy with our terms.
>
> i must concede, though with only the most profound
> regret, that the FNORD list is but a stagnant meme-pond,
> now having frozen over. Alas, the FNORD list is but the
> private toxic dumping-ground and personal message-base
> of an irrelevant few.
I certify that the above is entirely true (tm), pertinent, and free
of doctrinal error. The author, Gilbert (Jeel-bare) van Logos Lincoln
Log V, is entitled to one (1) free ride on the Cerebral Vacuum Whistling
Roller Coaster, when another such ride is purchased at twice the normal
rate.
However, said free ride may be revoked at any time on the grounds that
M. Jeel-Bare has merely taken what we've been saying all along and
translated it into ridiculous and obfuscatory socio-babble. Common
tongue, indeed.
> (d) Someone on the list wants to (and its embarrassing even
> to repeat such an absurd archaism) "take our women" from
> us. For a list that bills itself as a forum for "new
> ways of thinking" the above rather smacks of a very OLD
> way of thinking. What atavistic caprice comes next? Are
> you going to paint yourselves blue? Shoot poison arrows
> at us? Burn our huts? Steal our souls and bury them all
> sealed them in earthen jars?
>
> On this tiny planet, whoever you are, we do not "own"
> women and therefore, they cannot be taken. If you desire
> the attentions of a woman, you're going to have to run
> the same bloody gauntlet of utterly bewildering social
> and cultural practices (which determine the distribution
> of gender roles) that the rest of us must run ... good
> luck ...
Nevertheless, we are going to take your women; in fact, we have already
taken them. We are not going to paint ourselves blue, because blue is
the color of imperialist war-mongering western elitist swine such as your
good self; we do, however, have a good supply of poison arrows and would
be willing to burn your huts for a nominal fee. Shrunken heads we can
do, but the soul thing is out of the question: you have none, you ridiculous
wompy-jawed white man.
Have some gum, college boy.
Malibu Skipper
Your Friend in Time of Need
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 1994 09:37:28 EST
Sender: New Ways of Thinking List <FNORD-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From: Sweet Nancy <LIBALP>
Subject: Re: random notes
In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 11 Jan 1994 08:49:17 -0500 from<WILKES@BUTLERU>
On Tue, 11 Jan 1994 08:49:17 -0500 GILBERT VANBUREN WILKES IV said:
> _Random_notes:_
>
I have seen "random" and these are not random....
> i must concede, though with only the most profound
> regret, that the FNORD list is but a stagnant meme-pond,
> now having frozen over. Alas, the FNORD list is but the
> private toxic dumping-ground and personal message-base
> of an irrelevant few.
>
Name three.
> (d) Someone on the list wants to (and its embarrassing even
> to repeat such an absurd archaism) "take our women" from
> us. For a list that bills itself as a forum for "new
> ways of thinking" the above rather smacks of a very OLD
> way of thinking. What atavistic caprice comes next? Are
>
The next atavistic caprice involves looking up the word "irony",
assuming that your head-up-yr-ass-graduate-student sensibilities
would tolerate such. To your credit, you spell tolerably well.
CHEATING killed Foucault, by the way. An aneurysm killed CHEATING.
Simultaneously, Murali killed me. And now, I'm going to kill whatever's
left.
Watch me.
S. Nancy
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 1994 10:27:50 -0500
Sender: New Ways of Thinking List <FNORD-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From: GILBERT VANBUREN WILKES IV <WILKES@>
Subject: adieu
Sirs:
'Tis i, signing off - yet another victim of false
advertising. i had thought i'd find something of a conversation
going on. i was wrong (yet again). There are no "new ways of
thinking" here, no old ways of thinking, no thinking (a lot of
other stuff, i suppose, but thinking isn't in there). i'll keep
looking, though (i suppose its back to the gopher mail-list data-
base). Good luck to all of you.
adieu
g.v.w iv (who is not as yet a grad student)
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 1994 10:40:31 EST
Sender: New Ways of Thinking List <FNORD-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From: "Scott N. Lesser" <LESSER>
Subject: congratulations on the kill, boys
well, mark down one confirmed kill for Sweet Nancy and Malibu Skipper.
you boys done me proud out there, even though the little pansy didn't even
put up a fight. can you imagine what would have happened if pulled out the
big guns?
shaking his head,
Hewhois Withoutsin
"casting the third stone"
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 1994 10:54:06 EDT
Sender: New Ways of Thinking List <FNORD-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From: EJ Fnord <EJFORD>
Subject: Re: Some random notes
Gillman,
You have to admit that our posts have been niftier than others on
this list for quite some time.
Yes, YOU are the new Chewy-Style man for whom our gambols play. You
are the Thinking Man, The Large Man, The Overwhelmingly Cute Man.
Yes, Your comments are appreciated by us ravening barbarians
incapable of clear thought and decent, moral sexual behavior. Well,
Foss is, but he tinkers with the old Greasy Grey Matter <tm>. In the
meantime, consider yourself GOT.
Do you got any gum?
Listen, and if you make one more comment about New/Old Ways of
Thinking, I'm gonna puke, OK, you worthless but loveable sack of shit?
Comrade Revolutionary EJ Ford
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 1994 10:47:31 -0500
Sender: New Ways of Thinking List <FNORD-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From: <LIBWCA>
Subject: Re: congratulations on the kill, boys
In-Reply-To: <9401111545.AA16407@>
On Tue, 11 Jan 1994, Scott N. Lesser wrote:
> well, mark down one confirmed kill for Sweet Nancy and Malibu Skipper.
>
> you boys done me proud out there, even though the little pansy didn'teven
> put up a fight. can you imagine what would have happened if pulled outthe
> big guns?
>
> shaking his head,
>
> Hewhois Withoutsin
> "casting the third stone"
Too easy. I thought maybe that cat had some stones, too.
This place reeks of gloom and madness, and every moment it
exists is a unmentionable stain on the memory of He Who Is
Gone. Some a you boys that remembers us, get on up here and
help me take this wall down. AI Hermes Pendragon, grab that
jackhammer and redeem yerself, boy.
Malibu Skipper
And The Song From Under The Wall Players
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 1994 11:23:30 -0500
Sender: New Ways of Thinking List <FNORD-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From: <LIBWCA>
Subject: Bill of Laiding
Yes. False advertising. False advertising is but one of the many
crimes of which List Fnord-l is guilty, not only beyond a reasonable
doubt but, I put it to you, beyond a shadow of a doubt. The prosecution,
with the help of that weenie-loaf guy, has demonstrated the undeniable
guilt of List Fnord-L in the matter of false advertising. In the next
phase of this trial, we intend to show that List Fnord-L did willfully and
with malice aforethought harbor in it's bosom one T. Kidd, a known composer
of recreational effluvia with non-toxic side-effects up to and including
eternity in the Lake of Fire, also known as The Bad Place. You will see
evidence, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, which establishes absolutely
and without any ambiguity whatsoever that List Fnord-L is guilty of such
a staggering array of crimes as to make those already proved seem benign
and fuzzy. Towit:
>That List Fnord-L did wallow and meander aimlessly, over a period of
several months, in a tepid sea of callow niceness such that all did
lose use of limb, cattle were stricken in ye field, and corn did wilt
and fail to bring forth grain. This we aver.
>That the sworn and bounden upholders of the Old School did, on more
than one occasion, allow such niceness to be uttered without rebuke;
and further, that such forbidden matter as Theory and Praxis was openly
and shamelessly discussed in the streets, and that said authorities
did fail to act upon this crime, to their shame and that of the
commonwealth. This we aver.
>That jokes were posted, and no man held accountable for the posting
thereof. This we aver.
>That sacrifice to He Who Is Gone was not made, and due obeisance
withheld, and flatulence not uttered in the temple as the law requires.
This we aver.
>That the Rightful Queen of this land, as appointed by The Lord Cuthbert
upon his departure, was most foully murdered and done to death by knaves
and treachers, and has made to vanish even from the rolls of the census,
and her name forgotten even by he who did appoint her, because her death
was done in secret and because she was very dull. This we aver.
If the victim will plead innocence, let the instruments be displayed,
that he may know the manner of his trial. If the victim beg for
mercy, it shall be shown to him, and his plug pulled without further
verbiage. So sayeth the Lord.
Malibu Skipper
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 1994 16:04:40 -0500
Sender: New Ways of Thinking List <FNORD-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From: <LIBWCA>
Subject: Re: faq?
In-Reply-To: <9401112058.AA29353@>
On Mon, 10 Jan 1994, Janko Roettgers wrote:
> Hello out there,
>
> I subscribed to the fnord-list only a view days ago,
> and I wonder whether there is any FAQ or some else
> stuff describing the topics you are discussing.
>
> Thanks,
> Janko
>
> --
> Don't criticize it - realize it! j.roettgers@bionic.zer.de
> PGP Public Key available on request
Here you go:
Q: What is Fnord-L
A: Fnord-L is a graveyard for corpses clinically incapable of recognizing
their condition.
Q: Why don't these corpses just decompose and be done with it?
A: Scientists aren't sure. One suspected culprit is a bacteria known
as e. murali, which has been found in the bloodstream of mythical
creatures such as the Chinese Chattering Ghost. The condition
appears to be correctable only through the use of fire and, of
course, the sword.
Q: If Fnord-L is such a diseased and criminally pestilent place, shouldn't
I, the reader, devote every waking moment and straining muscle to the
quest for it's rapid demise?
A: Yes, you should. Anything you can do to convince the powers that be
on this list to pull the plug and end this heartless charade will be
greatly appreciated, and will be rewarded with extravagent outpourings
of gratitude and all the gum you can chew.
Q: Who the hell are you, anyway?
A: Just a tall, dark stranger, who loves the Lord and can't stand to
hear the cries of tortured children, ma'am. No need to thank me;
I'm just doing my job.
Q: Are there actual New Ways of Thinking?
A: There don't appear to be. Since the Old Ways are corrupt, vapid and
in a state of terminal decline, this might seem to be very bad news
indeed, but actually, it isn't. For a rational and amusing account
of why this is the case, send personal email to EJ Fnord, Chief
Recruiting Officer, DonkeyCorp Inc. This would be easier if he had
an email account, but far less psychically rewarding.
Malibu Skipper
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 1994 18:42:20 EST
Sender: New Ways of Thinking List <FNORD-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From: Turgid Prose <TIPPY>
Subject: fnord-l
Anyone who's waded through the Book of Revelations or had that acid epi-
phany knows just how hard it is to give flesh to the ineffable, but, hey,
this is "net performance art" which is not to say performance art without
a net. Or so I've heard. Post-modernism is indeed nebulous, and this does
make it attractive to the "experts" who crank out reams of nonsense telling
you this is pomo because of this or that, BUT this is not why IT'S neb-
ulous. It's because meaning has drowned in the ocean of information, and
academia is selling leaky life-boats. Too much data. "Reality" is bleeding
like a stuck pig. Listen to the beauty of it's squeals. Meaning what?
Well, as the boys down at the Lodge like to say, "Have sexual intercourse
with them if they can't appreciate it's humorous implications". Road-kill
on the information super-highway (thanks NPR) or dead thunk in the middle
of the road? Terminal bus or bus terminal, hell, let's just call it term-
inal and be done with it. Inside, safe. Outside, lost. All hail the despot-
god. Now back to your regularly scheduled "performance art." TP
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 1994 08:33:43 EDT
Sender: New Ways of Thinking List <FNORD-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From: EJ Fnord <EJFORD>
Subject: Re: fnord-l
Sadly, this is exactly the sort of half-assed effort that I am
talking about. Coherent? Yes. Substantive? More than many of my
posts? New? Well, let's put it this way.
A college instructor of mine once said that the appearance of ideas
in type means that they are already dead ideas. Recapitulating the
work of others makes them twice dead. And recapitulating sumaries of
other people's work makes them thrice dead.
NEW?
Forget it. As long as people on this list continue to compose great
odes to the aroma of the bathwater of long-gone sages, this list will
not be "New Ways of Thinking." You guessed it, it will be "Old Ways
of Stinking."
At one time the members of our revolutionary collective offered this
list an endless barrage of New Thinks, free from
reflective/inhibbitive commentary, for the most part.
In response, the owner of the list, a guy named Murali, removed us
without informing us. Chipmonks and Cyberbrats swarmed onto the
list, recreating the oldest of cyber-ways of thinking, the BBS, and
the whole thing has lapsed into the morrass you see today.
We of the revolutionary collective feel that the list may have filled
a purpose at one time. It doesn't anymore.
Leave. Find other lists. Challenge your readers with exciting prose
and fearless poetry.
BUT DO IT SOMEWHERE ELSE.
Comrade Revolutionary Ford
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 1994 10:44:34 EST
Sender: New Ways of Thinking List <FNORD-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From: tipper <TIPPY>
Subject: Necrophilia
Substantive? Hardly. New ways of stinking? By all means. Dazzling prose/
poetry? I beg your pardon. Somewhere else? Why, when by all accounts this
is precisely nowhere? The corpses smell just like brown and serve saus-
ages to moi. Gum, anyone? I brought enough for the whole class. Perhaps
Gilbert was right and the conception of "New Ways of Thinking" 'round these
here parts IS no way of thinking, as much as it galls me to admit that the
lexicon that walks like a man could be right about anything. Pshaw, sir.
Take my women? Fire teaches y'things. Did you ever feel the eyes of "things"
were upon you? Or as Alice says, I love the DEAD. Their blueing thoughts
for me to hold. And the light stays on. I insist. And, what's more, so do
THEY. Are you getting your money's worth? Science is golden, or so THEY say.
Would anyone on this list (with the possible exception of FIILL-IN-THE-
BLANK) know a new way of thinking if it came up and bit them on the ass?
Everything old is new again, sonny boy. Your new ways of thinking were old
back after the first big one, lackey of the crypto-dadaists. I know where
the bodies are buried and, believe me, I ain't afraid to dig 'em up. Wah,
Uncle Jed, ah jes' wanta be one of them there cypher-punks. Boy, what did
Granny tell you. Gene Acres and Hardwired Hillbillies. Ain't it grand?
Sniff the Black Metal Hand and weep. HE did, and he's a better man for it.
HI HO, HI HO. Spam. And psuedo-spam at that. Is there an echo in here, or
a choice? YOU be the Black Metal Hand and tell me. Aaaalvin. Sorry, Dave.
Feeling cheated? Ask YOUR women. The Pan Moot Report in all it's revealed
glory. Anyways, I just work here, sweeping all the debris under the headers
for the next guy. It's a job. How would you like it if I came to your place
of work and gave YOU a hard time. Ask the Black Metal Hand about that, would
you? Go on, don't be shy. It doesn't bite. Much. Boy, Uncle Jed, those there
sophisticated new thinkers sure enough put me in my place. Yeah, and Ellie's
got a new critter. And why shouldn't she? Wouldn't YOU? Ewwwww, what's this
gum doing stuck under here? Awright, 'fess up. 'Twasn't me, officer. C'mon,
be a MAN about it, f'r the sake of the Black Metal Hand. A lot is riding on
this and I for one and I for me. Hell, let's just ban orthography and be
done with it. Gum, anyone? Revolutionary thinking, anyone? Let the BlackMetal
Hand give you a nice little pat on the backs, there now, you're such nice
little new thinkers, aren't you? Coochie Coo Coo Goo Joob, Mr. Jones.
Congratulations, boys, cigars all around. Nothing but the best for my boys.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 1994 12:19:22 -0500
Sender: New Ways of Thinking List <FNORD-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From: 00bcpalmer
Subject: Piss Cross
Dear Everyone,
Urine is somewhat acidic (sp?) but for the most part benign. Piss Cross was
a revelation. The "salt and water" flowing from Jesus' pierced side was, in
fact, urine from his bloated bladder. Last Supper's can be very filling,part-
icularly when you have to drink *all* your own blood.
The Hon. Bre9nt <Pollux> AKA b9 <p>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 1994 13:15:29 -0500
Sender: New Ways of Thinking List <FNORD-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From: <LIBWCA>
Subject: Re: Necrophilia
In-Reply-To: <9401121712.AA27268@>
Ah. It seems this Tipper gentleman might actually know something. That
something might be better communicated, however, if Mr. Tipper were to
incorporate into his repertoire a device known as the independent clause;
the old single-edged sentence leads to frequent razor-burn and doesn't
always deliver that close shave so vital to the well-being of today's
now-a-go-go ghoul. Nevertheless, having discovered our reckless dada
soul, he deserves something extra special. EJ, give 'im a stick of
cinnamon.
Now, Mr. Tipper. Comfy? Like the gum? Good. Here's your bonus
question:
What's this "cypherpunk" thing you're on about.
Record your answer...
Now.
Malibu Skipper
Did you remember to carry the bum?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 1994 14:27:38 EDT
Sender: New Ways of Thinking List <FNORD-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From: EJ Fnord <EJFORD>
Subject: Re: Necrophilia
This is a good try, and close to the products of the previous crop of
list denizens, prior to the infusion of chipmonks and the exfusion of
decent writers on this list.
Tipper, I am addressing this to you personally:
Don't save this list. It's not worth it. The list stinks. It
stinks.
The ownership cares not a whit about good writing and many of the
denizens care not a whit about thinking. You may be one of the
enlightened few. Move on.
This is not a threat. This is not a test.
Move on.
Find a new playground. I am not taking this playground FROM anyone.
I am not forcing anyone to go. I am asking that anyone that can read
this find someplace else to play.
It's dying lads and lasses. It's dying. Necrophilia is for the
carrion-eaters.
Let it go. It's already gone, let it go.
Tipper, find someplace else to write and read and have fun. Not here.
It sucks here. Let it go.
EJ
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 1994 15:05:17 EST
Sender: New Ways of Thinking List <FNORD-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From: Sweet Nancy <LIBALP>
Subject: GOOD BREEDING
There was a Black Metal Hand in my clams this morning. Gilbert sent it
to me. Where's the good scissors? Why can't we keep anyone smart
and knowledgable around here? That nice boy knew good ways of thinking
from bad, old ways from new, Coke from Pepsi. He had discernment,
sensitivity, and above all, GOOD BLEEDING. Go ahead, son, tell them
how THE DONKEY RODE YOU DOWN. Tell them so that they'll know, and
never need to be told ever again, who am I kidding? Donkey will ride
again, then say, "That was some GOOD BLEEDING, when THE DONKEY RODE
THEM DOWN."The Black Metal Hand might fit Donkey, Donkey like to sit in
hand. GOOD BLEEDING. Excuse, please, my sponge has fallen out.
Sweet Nancy
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 1994 00:36:22 EST
Sender: New Ways of Thinking List <FNORD-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From: "Daniel A. Foss" <DFOSS@CCVM.SUNYSB.EDU>
Organization: State University of New York at Stony Brook
Subject: back-ward backwardness from the terminally absurd
This message from our owners brought to you as the usual public service
you expect from owners.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 1994 19:06:56 -0500 (EST)
From: Doctress Neutopia <NEUTOPIA>
To: Leri@pyramid.com (Leri)
Subject: THE UNCONDITIONAL LOVE GENERATION
THE UNCONDITIONAL LOVE GENERATION
Poor people have no right to love. That's way I don't think
about having sex anymore. The unemployed have no right to be in
love because they can't afford it. Love is an upper-middle class
privilege. You can't do love without a Mastercard, MIC telephone
card and a stylish new car. Love only works if you have a bank
account, otherwise you have no business falling in love. Woman can
only love men with money. It just doesn't work any other way.
Practically speaking, love is about paying the rent, paying water
heater bill, electric bill, dental bills, and all the other
necessities of the Bill of Right's life. One must do this
unconditionally because unconditional love is what social harmony
is all about.
Unconditional love asks no question when the bills are due.
The unconditional lover takes out her or his check book, writes the
check (or if he has the software he can do all his monthly billing
through the computer from home) and smiles when he is done the
monthly duties because he is experiencing how much joy it is to be
free. The unconditional lover obeys the laws of money and mother.
Whatever mother says, the unconditional lover does because mother
is the one who trained him to be the unconditional lover that he is
in the first place.
What woman wants to be involved with a man who can't take her
out to eat and to a movie once in a while? It's very simple folks,
Love is God and God makes Money. If God can't work, then God is no
longer God, but a goddamned bum, one of those disgusting welfare
receptions who should be put into a Clinton boot camp for
rebellious youth to teach them how to "behave themselves". Anyone
who can't find a job in this system, which takes care of everyone
because it is a system of unconditional love, is a failure. More
than likely they failed out of school, and so they are unworthy of
receiving public handouts. Why should any good law abiding
unconditional lovers be expected to pay with their hard earned tax
dollars for the upkeep of some unemployable, unmarriageable
intellectual/artist type who can't make a decent salary because no
one what's to buy what she was to say? Its just not American to
think that their should be free lunches. Anyway, we don't need
real art, art which makes you think, anymore. The Clinton/Gore
team and their wives are paid to do the thinking these days. The
aim of unconditional love is so that you don't have to worry about
anything so that you can spend your off hours in meditation about
the unconditional flow of love which is coming through everyone at
all times.
Unconditional lovers should have enough money to buy a
vacations house if they want to, or to send their kids to private
school so that they can become the best unconditional lovers. So
the system is quite just, you see. However the point is not to
think that the poor will always be with us, but to plan out social
programs which will eliminate the poor altogether. Since there is
no way the poor can afford to get married, buy any of the
necessities of the happy married life (how lucky they are), they
also have no right to engage in sex. What God fearing woman would
want to have sex with an unemployed, sociologist scum anyway? So
Social Darwinism wins! The poor stop reproducing and the rich who
have the social privileges can buy fertility anytime they want it.
And that's the way it should be because if you aren't smart enough
to know how to make money, you don't have the right to play God the
Almighty Creator.
Children who do manage to pop out of poor mothers are bound to
be criminals because they are the products of these social misfits.
These poor children don't deserve anything...DO YOU HEAR....except
to be the waitresses and waiters for the unconditional love kids.
However, if they prove that they can obtain a steady job, they can
then have enough money to apply to schools, receive a student loan
which they can work off later, so that they can complete with the
unconditional love kids with a college degree. So there is social
mobility within the Unconditional Love Higher Educational System.
If you do good, are happy, and logical enough to make high GRE
scores and make your way through Graduate School, you can win a
place in the neighborhoods along with the best bred unconditional
love generation in town.
Doctress Neutopia
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 94 23:07:57 EST
From: DFOSS@CCVM.sunysb.edu
To: Leri@pyramid.com (Leri)
Subject: now lizzy this will not look good on your chart one bit
Organization: State University of New York at Stony Brook
Pardon, terribly sorry to have you bothered by this one, she ran away,
and believe me, will I catch hell for this, not only did she escape the
very day she got grounds privileges, but broke a *hospital rule* by posting
under her delusional name (we do not, frankly, care that she legally changed
it), and *another* hospital rule, by doing so *before* all mention of her
Episode for which she was *previously* hospitalized had died down. Oh,excuse
me, there are some new faces here who don't know about this, like Michael
Current, who's come to us from the Lesbian Gay Bisexual Association, whose
work here in Stony Brook we at the hospital regard as eminently sane and
conducive to wellness, and who, Michael Current, is understandablysuspicious
and fearful of sexist persecution. A word of explanation is in order.
I am a duty nurse and ward attendant - a job which gives me no end of
gender role confusion but here in the tertiary labor market one takes what
one gets and after all I passed my civil service test by reading Woman On
The Edge of Time - at FNORD Memorial Hospital, a wholly owned subsidiary
of Leri, which I think is here. Dr Murali Majcher himself rehired me after
Dr Pat Salisbury passed on. So I can only tell you what is on LizzyHubbard's
chart. "This patient has compulsive need for attention which she satifies
by inviting persecution by posting longwinded repetitive ponderousprovincial
imitations of New Age Cultural-Feminist Goddess religions of the sort
parodied by Gore Vidal in Live From Golgotha, 1992, and having ascertained
that the viewing audience is *not* interested no matter how much they agree
in principle, she pours it on till the flames of Greek Fire rage all around
her. At this point in her Episodic cycle, she turns violently abusive,hurling
back Flaming Napalm at her Enemies List real and, mostly, imaginary."
To avoid further annoyance to the public, and to resume Therapeutic
treatment of the patient, it is therefore a hospital rule that nobody is
permitted to persecute Lizzy except me, and then only upon evidence that
she has taken Positive Steps. We regulate her dysregulated behvior, aside
from the usual Haldol, by giving or withholding persecution, grounds
privileges, and nightly sex fantasies read to her via e-mail in ambiguous
outline, which she colors in with her crayons and returns lurid replete
with Fredericks of Hollywood paraphenalia which she says her ex-husband
made her submit to.
You may rest assured, Mr Current and all well people of whatever gender,
sexual preference, racial or cultural minority, or relationship to either
Cultural Studies or Identity Politics, we frankly don't know the difference
yet, or both, that your views are welcome on Leri even if you, personally,
are not. With that, I must be off, having given Lizzy her shot.<squish>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
*** From the Leri Damage Control Department ****:
The viewing audience should be informed that the docrine of Unconditional
Love, or Love Without Discrimination, frequently also called Universl Love,
was propounded by the Classical Chinese philosopher of the Warring States
Period, Mo Di, also Mozi or Mo Tzu, Master Mo, a contemporary of Plato. The
doctrine appealed to rulers to implement it to their advantage, much asPlato
did at the court of the Tyrant Dionysius I of Syracuse and his son,
Dionysius II. Mo Di hardly fared as well as Plato, however, as the latter
was kept in enforced luxurious idleness out of harm's way in the Tyrants'
human zoo for intellectuals.
Unconditional or Universal Love doctrine held that all subjects of the
ruler should equally love all other subjects of the ruler, though it is
not clear whether the reciprocal was required or even feigned. Should all
the subjects equally love each other, and of course the ruler (it goeswithout
saying), each member of society would become a workaholic, increasingthereby
both production and the military production of the state, rendering it
invincible in war. The workaholism would be exerted, be it noted, without
change in the prevailing distribution of labor. Illustrations are given in
Mo Di's writings of ministers, officials, clerks and scribes, pettyservitors,
and craftsmen hurrying to the palace well before the crack of dawn, working
like fiends, and returning home well after dark, call it a sixteen-hour day.
No mention in the various occupational roles is made of women, who would
presumably exhibit analogous workaholism in their usual duties, either
growing (then cooking) food or concubinage.
The common ground between Mo Di's doctrine and those of so-called Free
or Unconstrained Love in the nineteenth or twentieth centuries, where the
latter were enemies of what, today, is called by the infelicitous term,
"nuclear family," which may be blamed on Intro Sociology courses, was
in hostility to family ties itself. The grounds were, however, far from
the "community of women" advocated in the Communist Manifesto or similar
unions based on "pure love" as practiced in late-nineteenth-century US
utopian communities, or the rather derivative notions of our Lizzy as
her Doctress Neutopia persona.
The notion of gender hierarchy or Patriarchy or sexism or other usages
prominent in the feminist critique of the rather pathetic vestiges of once-
proud "bourgeois marriage," now a vehicle for the enrichment of the legal
profession and a secondary cause of teenage suicide and clinical depression
in young children, never occured to Mo Di. His objection to "family ties,"
as the translator of my copy has it, was that the latter detracted from the
subject's total commitment to the state. This position was of coursevirulently
condemned by the Confucian school, notably Mencius, given the Confucian
commitment to the Five Obediences, Son to Father, Wife to Husband, Younger
Brother to Elder Brother, Student to Teacher, and Subject to Ruler. (The
most horrid Obedience, Daughter-in-law to Mother-in-law, was omitted from
doctrinal treatises for reasons of taste.)
The closest applications in practice of the Mo Di doctrine familiar to
the reader were the fanatical integral nationalisms of late-nineteenthcentury
Europe, such as Chauvin-ism in France; these are given considerable credit
for the political climate which brought on World War One. Fascism, from 1922
in Italy and from 1933 in Germany (with provincial variants in Spain,
Argentina, Portugal, Hungary, Rumania, and as late as 1954-1963 in "South
Vietnam"), exhibited even more extreme variants of enforced socialsolidarity
under repressive and totalitarian states. But without exception, theChauvinist
or Fascist governments in question, most explicitly the Petain Regime in
France, 1940-1944, "Work, Authority, Family," extolled marital ties and
subsidized natalistic demographic policies, keeping women barefoot (more
shoes for industry) and pregnant. The same ambience pervaded the USSR under
Stalin, with its illegality of abortion and Hero Mother medals accompanying
appeals to "Soviet Patriotism" and Stakhanovite workaholism.
In China itself, the most complete application of Mohist doctrine awaited
the Great Leap Forward, with its fantastically intense social regimentation
and effacement of family ties by means of such devices as common mess halls
for large work groups (by large is meant thousands). Again, there wereMohist
aspects of the Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution, which however levelled
hierarchies at some cost in chaos; nevertheless, under egalitarianconditions,
all Chinese loved each other, most literally among the millions of young
rootless Red Guards (with demographic consequences contributing to today's
infanticidal repression); but most of all, everyone appeared to sincerely
love (nobody dared do otherwise) the Great Helmsman Mao Zedong.
****
The following text was reprinted without permission from the
cybersamizdat list, Donkey-l, comprising Homeless expelled from the
FNORD-L@UBVM Hospital, disguised as New Ways of Thinking List, when
Dr Murali Majcher cut staff and subscribers after the Leri takeover. It
is relevant to the contemporary significance of the patient Lizzy
Hubbard's posting to Leri today:
>over what got her persecuted over in the Mother Country. Leri, I mean.That
>she has caught on to the perfectly obvious principle that, if this is
>capitalism, matured beyond its Victorian-productionist phase, it's gotto
>establish a strict monotonic relationship between gratification andsocio-
>economic status, which for most people is just plain income. So it isgoing
>to prohibit anything the poor have fun with, like unfashionable Drugs,and
>keep them in the jug by hundreds of thousands; make the middle classenjoy
>themselves harder and harder on stagnant or declining real incomes, and
>allow the Upper Middle Professionals and Managerials and of course the
>really rich to have the choicest fun. There is a statisticalrelationship
>between the orgastic frequency of women and years of formal education,for
>instance. Big news. Those who can afford it have love, those who can'thave
>sick obsessions. What else is new.
The foregoing is true, frankly it's as bad as the delusions, but when
one deals with psychotics, any utterance or verbal production is psychotic
babble and symptomatic, so what could we do.
Daniel A. Foss
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 1994 23:16:51 EST
Sender: New Ways of Thinking List <FNORD-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From: tippo <TIPPY>
Subject: The wages of Sin
Nice try they all agreed. Nice try but somehow it had just not been enough.
Nudging the corpse with a shoe, gently at first, then kicking with wild
abandon. Nothing. Yep. Dead all right. They picked the corpse up and put it
in a Hefty twist-tie garbage bag and left it on the curb for trash pick-up.
Somebody else's problem now, somebody else's broken dream. Fnord-l is dead,
long live fnord-l! They walked, sadder, but perhaps just a bit wiser into
the approaching dusk. Curtains down, lights up. How fucking depressing.
What is this? The European version? It'll never play in Podunk, that's for
sure.Where's the upbeat pro-social fake-happy-ending? Tack one on and then
we'll talk. And anyways if my clauses were independent I couldn't write 'emoff
on my taxes, could I? Shirley Temple's got the blues. And I got the bill.
What could be more fair? Old Uncle Fnord, his arm around little Johnny's
shoulder, sadly, "It just ain't like it was in the old days, kid. Therewere,
well, there were GIANTS in those days, boy!" "But, it'll be good again,won't
it, Uncle Fnord?" "Sure, kid, sure it will." But little Johnny senses the
uncertainty in the old man's words. So after the old man's fallen asleep
in front of the tube in a Robitussin-induced stupor, little Johnny will do
what all good boys should do in his place. He will smother the old fart with
a pillow. Hey you, out there! I understand there's some great stuff going on
on LURK-L. What is this, some kinda freak show? C'mon, break it up. Move
along now. Go on home, folks, there's nothing to see here. Hide and Freak.
Or maybe just freak, but freak harder. Come on! Put a little effort into it.
Whoa, that's a little too much. Goddam,give 'em an inch...Save this list?
Ha! Sir, sadly you overestimate my intentions. It's the world I'm trying to
save. I mean, Jesus had fins and what good did it do him? He still gotnailed
to that bloody fishbowl. And then he fell right over. No fun at all.
Go straight to jail. Ahhh...that's the life. Maybe they'll put one of those
electrode doohickeys in my brain so I'll know where the hell I am. And may-
be no one will get upset about it, 'cause after all I must deserve it orthey
wouldn't have put it there, would they? Yep, the day is coming when the Neo-
Science Fascists will have to answer to the wrath of the BMH. Hooboy, I
wouldn't be in their boots when Granny gets jacked in. Yeah, if pigs had
wingtips...why, they'd be the Zif, wouldn't they? READ unhappy MAKNAM.
Yeah, the Zif. Don't get me started on him. Of course don't ever let Him
hear you calling him that. Those Neo-Science boys play hardball when they're
not playing hard to get. Anyways that's all cottage cheese under the bednow.
Or will be soon. I tell you the day is coming. The end of the age of the
post-iconoclastic crapfest, yea verily, it is sooth. Or is that Moot(tm)?
>From here it's increasingly difficult to tell the bed from the cottage
cheese. From there it's, well, it's there, if you know what I mean. All
depends on the point of skew. Maybe I already have an electrode doohickey
in my brain, though I've no idea where I am. Is that possible? All praise
the HAND! HI HO, HI HO. Spam. Is this the happy ending you wanted, Mr. Suit?
Is this the catchy little jingle your corporate hole-where-a-heart-should-be
desires? Death to Neo-Science! Death to the false despot-gods! Death to this
assertion! Long live Granny! Long live the HAND!
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 1994 08:16:50 -0500
Sender: New Ways of Thinking List <FNORD-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From: 00bcpalmer
Subject: MORE on World Saviour's Bloated Bladder
and there is no mention of JC the Saviour of All peeing in-between the
Last Supper and the CrazyFiction.
and the Last Supper was a pot luck. And Judas brought crow.
Hope this was worth all the time and effort, ya potheads: Bre5nt<Pollux>
p.s. "Matthew, Bring the Potato[e] Salad" and other commands of the Saviour
are printed in red!
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 1994 08:23:15 -0500
Sender: New Ways of Thinking List <FNORD-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From: 00bcpalmer
Subject: Lowest Common Denominator
Here is more prose representative of the under-the-foot-of-Leri crap spawned
in this cesspool:
and what if Jesus wore red ruby slippers and clicked to Kansas. $5.99! $5,99!?
and what if we were living in a 2000 year old Virtual love-scam? likeabscam???
$12.99! $12.99! heh heh : He said the "price" of a love-scam. Heh heh heh.
b the <p>
peein' all the time
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 1994 16:34:56 -0500
Sender: New Ways of Thinking List <FNORD-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From: <LIBWCA>
Subject: Re: fnord-l
In-Reply-To: <9401131235.AA14037@>
On Thu, 13 Jan 1994, Dick Cravens wrote:
> So, if we are to leave (having just come here), where DO the buffaloroam?
>
> EJ?
EJ is dead, Dick, and the buffalo don't roam. It's sad, and we'd all
like to believe otherwise, but the whole damn "thinking" thing - old
ways, new ways, borrowed ways, blue ways - is pretty much over. What
we do now is, we assimilate kinetic images and parse texts. That
sorta thing you can do on FLN, but they don't like to see anything
actually posted, y'understand - it's best if you just think about what
you would have posted, had this been the olden days when thinking was
still exalted, though not actually done much.
At any rate, if you plan to continue thinking, in the name of the bouncing
baby Jesus DON'T do it here. This place is being detoxified prior to
burial at sea, and if the fumes don't get you the barnacles will. Stay
ashore. Tell your friends.
Malibu Skipper
The one in the peace-sign gas mask
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 1994 17:03:18 -0500
Sender: New Ways of Thinking List <FNORD-L@UBVM.BITNET>
From: <LIBWCA>
Subject: Re: The wages of Sin
In-Reply-To: <9401130729.AA24350@>
Hey, this cat is actually pretty good. If this list wasn't totally
moribund, he'd be the one to save it, you bet. But the gangrene's
gone too far, I'm afraid, and even selective amputation won't help
now. Probably a quick shot to the head is best for all concerned,
but Murali's got the only gun that works; he seems to have gone into
seclusion, leaving those of us who care no other option but to beat
the damn thing to death with our combs. Shouldn't take much longer,
now; those of you who object to stale urine might want to go ahead
and leave...
Malibu Skipper
Sorry to do it, really
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